Navy 2013

Re: Navy 2013

New postby randyrad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:13 pm

...just as it's misleading & disingenuous to compare Meade's first 5 yrs as Navy HC with Sowell's initial Navy record.
As VONL pointed out, the resources avail to Navy lax then, weren't what they are now. Navy faced a different DI landscape, as an independent.

RM was an unheralded asst whose only HC experience was at an underfunded 2yr D1 program which expired, despite his good work there.

RS came in as an experienced HC, with a reputation as a turnaround artist, based on his success at Dmouth & SB, & he reportedly commands one of the top salaries in DI.

The NCAA Tourney field was much smaller in the mid 90's & the PL AQ path was not avail to NAVY 'til 2004, ...& look what happened starting then.

To be fair, SB was not a weak program. RS inherited a solid winning program (when AE rivals Albany & UMBC were also strong), on the rise, with a decent roster & recruit pipeline, from Lars Tiffany, who left SB for an Ivy League job.
The hope is that he can replicate his SB success at Navy.

...just sayin. The future is now. It should be clear by now that Navy was not a basket case, in need of a rebuild, ...just a tuneup & more experience on the field.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby timkin808 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:25 pm

NavyStarWinner wrote:Crabfan's attempt to use Sowell's career win/loss record, to negatively cast aspersions on his coaching ability, is misleading and disingenuous at best. I suspect most of the readers of this forum are familiar with the weak lacrosse programs Sowell took over prior to Navy ......... and what he did with them.

Did he really take Dartmouth to the NCAA Tournament......Dartmouth? .........and I thought Stony Brook was a Division II program until Sowell went there ......... and he beats Johns Hopkins in a "down year" at Navy ...... please, no more silly attempts to diminish his accomplishments.

I will always love Richie.......and I will always be bitter about what happened to him.........but, if you do your homework on this Sowell guy ....you know we got a winner.

Beat Georgetown!


Nice Job Navy Star Winner!!!
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby IHTFP on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:43 pm

randyrad wrote::think: ...wonder what the impact on televising future Navy home lax games will be if the Big East accepts ESPN's counteroffer over NBC/NBCSN


here's a few pretty simple questions for you:

1. What sports at Navy are joining the big east?
1a. So that means Navy lacrosse will be in which league?
2. What network holds the rights to the league that is the answer to question 1a?
3. How does all of this impact your :think: ?
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby randyrad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 pm

I'm seeking answers, not questions.
Please provide the answers to your own questions & these --

1. Given the PL-CBS deal, does CBS hold the exclusive rights to televise Navy lax home games, including nonconf games ?
2. If the answer to 1. is yes, for how long is that PL-CBS deal binding. ?
3. If CBSSN no longer televises Navy home football games, will they be less inclined to return to NMCMS to originate PL lax games ?

I :think: about this, as I watch NBCSN's 2nd wk of excellent lacrosse coverage.
CSTV's coverage of Navy home FB evolved into something good for Navy lax on CBSSN.
I'm also not encouraged about the prospects for any Navy sports enjoying the current level of coverage, if ESPN holds the rights for Navy FB. While NBCSN reminds me of CSTV => CBSSN a few years ago.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby Tecumseh on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:39 pm

IHTFP wrote:
randyrad wrote:Nobody attacked VONL. Everybody appreciates VONL's work. We do everything possible here to promote it.


tecumseh implied that VONL's oped on here was basically paid for by NAAA and then maxlaxnumbers calls him disingineous and accuses him of propagandizing. that's not promoting his work; that's attacking his objectiveness (imho).

btw, if you have a smartphone, there are a plethora of ways to listen to radio streams. of course, you're going to have a little more delay than with a live broadcast, but those are a few secs behind anyway



Hey IHop , exactly what I said was:

"VONL is on Chet's payroll which I fully understand and totally respect his publicly stated point of view."

Nothing implied at all , Pete is a pro and what he is being told to post publicly , i totally respect . Not sure what wasn't clear about that.

Pete should be doing national TV games . Watch the NBC game on now if you need anymore proof of that. It's no secret that Pete's handlers don't like the continued white hot spotlight all over the national lacrosse media about the tragic "dummy down in Napstown". They never estimated that massive disdain from the Majority of the NAVY lacrosse family for what they have done . BTW , try the spell checker it really works :roll: :roll:

Yep and RM and PJ aren't coming back , and that's a fact !

Question to the Navy Star , What about the St. John years , quick visit , quickly "pulled out" , I don't get it , do you have the inside spin ?

Fairfield lost by one to UNC , I believe Navy would have beat UNC given the oppurtunity from the Washed.

It will be very interesting to see which one of the freshman Keepers , Georgetown starts tomorrow
( http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-lacros/ ... s-mtt.html ) .

I'll take a Popsicle :mrgreen:

GO NAVY , BEAT HOYAS by 5

"T"
Last edited by Tecumseh on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby beta on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:49 pm

So T, VONL was told to post that?

I am missing the spotlight to which you prefer. 8)

I will send you a claret popsicle.

Hey, are you checking out the Fairfield-UNC score?
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby Tecumseh on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:56 pm

Yep , I'm impressed that Fairfield took it to 'em and only lost by 1 . I wish our Mids had been given the opportunity to have gone to UNC this season , I believe we would have won and it could have been an excellent SOS addition .

See you tomorrow in HOYA land ?

Enjoy your day and save me Popsicle for the tailgate !

Bucknell just beat Bryant also.

Go Navy , Beat the Hoyas by 5


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Re: Navy 2013

New postby beta on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:01 pm

Defending champs having a tough day thus far north of Coldspring.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby Tecumseh on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:11 pm

"B" , I'm so torn watching both these good guy , great coaches , but it's only February .

Greyhounds on a run ..................

What's this mean for NAAA dollars:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ights-deal

GO NAVY , Beat the Hoyas by 5

"T"
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby randyrad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:18 pm

...can't wait to become a discounted ESPN "property". I love Wed night games on ESPN3.

Come on Presidents, vote NBCSN.

I'm betting the quickness of Navy's attackmen tie the Hoya poles in knots.
...let's see some #3 on the invert.

isn't Ridley on the south side of Cold Spring ?
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby Go Navy on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:06 pm

beta wrote:Defending champs having a tough day thus far north of Coldspring.


We are going to have our hands full with Maryland, but we already knew that.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby LadyLaker on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:30 pm

beta wrote:So T, VONL was told to post that?


Who knows if he was "told" to post anything. Use your common sense -who speaks negatively or even anti-partyline against their employer in a public venue and hopes to keep their job?

No one disputes VONL's on-air talent. Nor does anyone dispute his long affiliation and service to USNA. He didn't get where he is by speaking negatively about the decisions made by the guy who signs his paycheck.

Seriously people.

so get all huffy puffy. But look yourself in the mirror and ask when was the last time you posted something negative in a public forum that everyone knows your boss reads?
Right.


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Re: Navy 2013

New postby timkin808 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:45 pm

IHTFP= I Have To F'ng Pee -OR- I Hate The F'ng Parents??????
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby randyrad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:54 pm

timkin808 wrote:IHTFP= I Hate The F'ng Parents??????


That's the other Navy sports forum.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby fattylax on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:33 pm

randyrad wrote:...just as it's misleading & disingenuous to compare Meade's first 5 yrs as Navy HC with Sowell's initial Navy record.
As VONL pointed out, the resources avail to Navy lax then, weren't what they are now. Navy faced a different DI landscape, as an independent.

RM was an unheralded asst whose only HC experience was at an underfunded 2yr D1 program which expired, despite his good work there.

RS came in as an experienced HC, with a reputation as a turnaround artist, based on his success at Dmouth & SB, & he reportedly commands one of the top salaries in DI.

The NCAA Tourney field was much smaller in the mid 90's & the PL AQ path was not avail to NAVY 'til 2004, ...& look what happened starting then.

To be fair, SB was not a weak program. RS inherited a solid winning program (when AE rivals Albany & UMBC were also strong), on the rise, with a decent roster & recruit pipeline, from Lars Tiffany, who left SB for an Ivy League job.
The hope is that he can replicate his SB success at Navy.

...just sayin. The future is now. It should be clear by now that Navy was not a basket case, in need of a rebuild, ...just a tuneup & more experience on the field.


you'd know better than fatty........what resources went- ah- missn when Richie came to town. The prior decade saw Navy get 6 NCAA's invites.....3 in a row before he got there. What well suddenly dried up?
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby NavyStarWinner on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:32 pm

randyrad wrote:...just as it's misleading & disingenuous to compare Meade's first 5 yrs as Navy HC with Sowell's initial Navy record.
As VONL pointed out, the resources avail to Navy lax then, weren't what they are now. Navy faced a different DI landscape, as an independent.

RM was an unheralded asst whose only HC experience was at an underfunded 2yr D1 program which expired, despite his good work there.

RS came in as an experienced HC, with a reputation as a turnaround artist, based on his success at Dmouth & SB, & he reportedly commands one of the top salaries in DI.

The NCAA Tourney field was much smaller in the mid 90's & the PL AQ path was not avail to NAVY 'til 2004, ...& look what happened starting then.

To be fair, SB was not a weak program. RS inherited a solid winning program (when AE rivals Albany & UMBC were also strong), on the rise, with a decent roster & recruit pipeline, from Lars Tiffany, who left SB for an Ivy League job.
The hope is that he can replicate his SB success at Navy.

...just sayin. The future is now. It should be clear by now that Navy was not a basket case, in need of a rebuild, ...just a tuneup & more experience on the field.


I'm not exactly sure what your point is Randy ....... but, I suspect I disagree with it.....LOL!

I'm new to this forum ........ but, not to Navy Lacrosse ........I remember both Szlasa and Matthews trying to coach in the shadow of Bildy and the 60s ..... neither had it easy, but both went on to prove their mettle and garner Division I Coach of the Year honors.

The game and the landscape of lacrosse is always changing ..... not necessarily to the advantage of the Military Academies ....once upon on a time the Academies were the only ones able to actively recruit juniors ..... this was a big advantage. Eventually, other DI programs figured how to get around the rules and now we have freshmen committing to Hopkins...

But, hey sorry for my ignorance about Stony Brook ....... so did they win the American East and go to the NCAAs before Sowell got there?....Didn't Sowell win in the NCAAs as well....beat that famous coach at Denver ..some Irish name.....did Stony Brook really do all those things before Sowell got there?

Also....as I learn about this Sowell guy ....I haven't really heard this "turn around artist thing" ...... I must have missed it. I've heard things like tough, hard nosed, loyal, unselfish, hardworking...... yea ....a lot of the same things that people said ...and still say about Richie. I love Richie!!

Hey... and Randy ....just how many times have we beat Johns Hopkins since 1974. Who does this Sowell guy think he is coming in and pounding the poor Blue Jays like he did last year! But, I guess he believes the future is now! So how many wins over Hopkins since 1974 ....Randy?
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby shorelaxin on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:52 pm

Hey... and Randy ....just how many times have we beat Johns Hopkins since 1974. Who does this Sowell guy think he is coming in and pounding the poor Blue Jays like he did last year! But, I guess he believes the future is now! So how many wins over Hopkins since 1974 ....Randy?


1-0 vs Hopkins
0-1 vs Army
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby beta on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:56 pm

LadyLaker wrote:
beta wrote:So T, VONL was told to post that?


Who knows if he was "told" to post anything. Use your common sense -who speaks negatively or even anti-partyline against their employer in a public venue and hopes to keep their job?

No one disputes VONL's on-air talent. Nor does anyone dispute his long affiliation and service to USNA. He didn't get where he is by speaking negatively about the decisions made by the guy who signs his paycheck.

Seriously people.

so get all huffy puffy. But look yourself in the mirror and ask when was the last time you posted something negative in a public forum that everyone knows your boss reads?
Right.


LL



Huffy puffy -- hahaha - who specializes in that?

T said VONL was told by his "handlers" to post that - use your common sense. See: "All MAX questioned was the spin from his handlers that belongs over on the GO - NAAA site, that it!" OR " Pete is a pro and what he is being told to post publicly , i totally respect..."

While we are at it, please provide citations to RS speaking ill of players, fans, parents and LP - I would love to see it.

Seriously people. Right.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby randyrad on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:07 pm

fattylax wrote: you'd know better than fatty........what resources went- ah- missn when Richie came to town. The prior decade saw Navy get 6 NCAA's invites.....3 in a row before he got there. What well suddenly dried up?

navy b-robe star wrote:I'm not exactly sure what your point is Randy ....... but, I suspect I disagree with it.....LOL!
But, hey sorry for my ignorance about Stony Brook ....... so did they win the American East and go to the NCAAs before Sowell got there?....Didn't Sowell win in the NCAAs as well....beat that famous coach at Denver ..some Irish name.....did Stony Brook really do all those things before Sowell got there?
So how many wins over Hopkins since 1974 ....Randy?


Resources -- access to playing games in the stadium, for one thing. Meade had to fight tooth & nail to get games back there, even when it was not closed for renovation. Post 9-11 security constraints helped.

Before the ncaa tourney field expanded & Navy began playing for the PL AQ, it had become extremely difficult for Navy to secure a bid. There were fewer bids & selection criteria were not as consistent & well publicized as they are now.

Brian Matthew's last Navy team got a bid with a 7-6 record.
Meade's first bid was in '99, with a 7-6 record, thanks to a brutal sched & quality W's over Penn, UNC, Gtown & Army.
They were passed over for bids in '95 (6-6), '97 (6-6) & '98 (7-6), vs mostly the same or equiv sched. They joined the ECAC in 2000, & went 9-4, 8-5, & 8-5, without gaining an ncaa bid.
I recall RM saying they were joining the PL so they could win an ncaa bid on the field (via a conf tourney), rather that at the whim of a selection committee. They did just that, & the rest is history.

He brought Navy back to a level it had not enjoyed since the 1960's. It wasn't a 1 year flash in the plan. That's the Navy program that Coach Sowell inherited. Meade was an inexperienced HC when he came into the Navy job. Coach Sowell certainly is not. That's why he's being compensated as he is. With that compensation comes commensurate expectations.

Meade had as many W's over JHU as Slaza & Sowell, & more than Matthews.
He was 15-6 vs Army, Bildy was 7-6-1.

I was a big fan of Stony Brook during their recent run of success. I really enjoyed their 2010 season & celebrated their ncaa 1st rd win over Denver, although not quite as much as Navy's 2004 win over that same coach's Princeton team in the ncaa semis. LIke the rest of SB fans, I was stunned & disappointed by the early end to the 2011 season of great expectations. I'm disappointed in the state of the SB program which Jim Nagel inherited. Winning the weakened AE AQ with a 7-9 record is a far cry from the Top 20 SB teams of '10 & '11. I'm not privvy to the same personal testimonials as you are, but I'm happy for you that you're a big fan of Coach Sowell. I will be too when he restores Navy lacrosse to the level of success enjoyed since joining the Patriot League.
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Re: Navy 2013

New postby beta on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:21 pm

I don't understand the emphasis on RM, but I am sure you will enlighten me. To be accurate, the team RM inherited went to the tourney three years in a row before his arrival. It took four years to get back there, then another drought, followed by an unbelievable run of appearances.
RS inherited a program that had not been there for two years, and was a combined 11-17 during those two years.
RM was a fantastic coach in the modern area - an no one can take away from that. And the jury is out on RS...but I like waht I see thus far.
Time willl tell.
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