Dartmouth 2010

Dartmouth 2010

New postby mystic lax on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:03 pm

With Towers at the helm and a team full of his recruits, seems fitting to start talking about next year.....

Coaching wise, does anyone know if Danehy will be staying on? if so, will it be in his 2nd asst. role or will he get the promo?

The attack should be fine with solid talent in sussman and dooley returning. The defense also returns a lot of talent in hingtgen and gagel. Its the midfield and goal that I worry about. Ever since goldstein graduated the goalie situation has been a big "?" and the midfield hasn't seemed productive since the likes of Grinnell, Heritage and Hufnagel moved on to greener pastures

Anyone know about the talent they are bringing in to fill the ranks next year? Would love to see some big middies running between the lines. Heard a kid from canisius (sec VI) fits the bill.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby CommonMan on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:51 pm

mystic lax wrote:With Towers at the helm and a team full of his recruits, seems fitting to start talking about next year.....

Coaching wise, does anyone know if Danehy will be staying on? if so, will it be in his 2nd asst. role or will he get the promo?

The attack should be fine with solid talent in sussman and dooley returning. The defense also returns a lot of talent in hingtgen and gagel. Its the midfield and goal that I worry about. Ever since goldstein graduated the goalie situation has been a big "?" and the midfield hasn't seemed productive since the likes of Grinnell, Heritage and Hufnagel moved on to greener pastures

Anyone know about the talent they are bringing in to fill the ranks next year? Would love to see some big middies running between the lines. Heard a kid from canisius (sec VI) fits the bill.


Dartmouth needs a defensive mind for the top assistant spot so I doubt Danehy will get the nod as he is an offensive mind. Towers is also an offensive mind. Towers has been around the block and has good connections from his tenure as a coach and player so I think he should be able to get a friend or respected colleague to join him in Hanover. I'm not sure as to how much the recruits were his as opposed to coach Wilson's. I think it is still necessary to give him a couple years to see if he can pull in some rising stars. Towers is a much more personable guy than Wilson and I think will be able to attract some solid recruits at the helm.

We will see however, the recruiting cycle moving forward in the past couple years does not play into a school like Dartmouth's favor. Dartmouth will do best when they can get further into the Senior year as they can really get reads from admissions and get kids to come up on official visits in late September early October (Dartmouth classes don't start until the 3rd week of September with schools like OSU, Northwestern, Stanford and a few others on the quarter system Anyway getting kids up to Hanover is the key to closing the deal and getting kids that start off the summer of their senior year not thinking about Dartmouth as their top pick to choose Dartmouth- outside of New England people really don't know what Dartmouth is all about. It is school that can really distinguish itself during a visit because the students really like Dartmouth and like to have a good time.

Anyway best of luck to Coach Towers. I think his intense, personable nature will really appeal to a lot of up and coming players.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby mystic lax on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:50 am

CommonMan wrote:
Dartmouth needs a defensive mind for the top assistant spot so I doubt Danehy will get the nod as he is an offensive mind. Towers is also an offensive mind. Towers has been around the block and has good connections from his tenure as a coach and player so I think he should be able to get a friend or respected colleague to join him in Hanover.


Any thoughts on who he might be able to call on to join him in Hanover? Maybe he keeps the trend of former players going and hires another recent grad :think:
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby NYlax07 on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:10 am

mystic lax wrote:...Anyone know about the talent they are bringing in to fill the ranks next year?

This list of recruits was on a Dartmouth Football blog:

More Early Decision recruits from sports not named football ...

Men's Lacrosse

Ryan Alexander, G, Rockville Center, N.Y. (South Side)
Frazier Cavness, A, Denver, Colo. (Kent Denver)
Chris Costabile, A, Sykesville, Md. (Mt. St. Joseph)
Nikki Dysenchuk, M, Darien, Conn. (Darien)
Pat Flynn D, Mountain Lakes, N.J. (Mountain Lakes)
Anthony Fulham, M, Buffalo, N.Y. (Canisius)*
JP Gary, M, Mamaroneck, N.Y. (Rye Country Day)
RC Willenbrock, M, Englewood, Colo. (Cherry Creek)*
* Also expected to play football
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby mystic lax on Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:57 pm

NYlax07 wrote:
mystic lax wrote:...Anyone know about the talent they are bringing in to fill the ranks next year?

This list of recruits was on a Dartmouth Football blog:

More Early Decision recruits from sports not named football ...

Men's Lacrosse

Ryan Alexander, G, Rockville Center, N.Y. (South Side)
Frazier Cavness, A, Denver, Colo. (Kent Denver)
Chris Costabile, A, Sykesville, Md. (Mt. St. Joseph)
Nikki Dysenchuk, M, Darien, Conn. (Darien)
Pat Flynn D, Mountain Lakes, N.J. (Mountain Lakes)
Anthony Fulham, M, Buffalo, N.Y. (Canisius)*
JP Gary, M, Mamaroneck, N.Y. (Rye Country Day)
RC Willenbrock, M, Englewood, Colo. (Cherry Creek)*
* Also expected to play football


has anyone seen some of these kids play? what kind of talent are the big green getting next year?
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby eleazor on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:50 pm

mystic lax wrote:
CommonMan wrote:
Dartmouth needs a defensive mind for the top assistant spot so I doubt Danehy will get the nod as he is an offensive mind. Towers is also an offensive mind. Towers has been around the block and has good connections from his tenure as a coach and player so I think he should be able to get a friend or respected colleague to join him in Hanover.


Any thoughts on who he might be able to call on to join him in Hanover? Maybe he keeps the trend of former players going and hires another recent grad :think:



Word is that Jon Torpey, former Denver assistant, is a frontrunner for the top assistant job. He has been to campus already and would no doubt bring a defensive mind to the staff.

Congrats again to coach Towers and to the program. The College got the search right this time.

Go Big Green.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby transplant08 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:32 pm

Inside Lacrosse posted an interview with Towers
http://blogs.insidelacrosse.com/2009/06 ... dy-towers/

Danehy will likely become the top assistant if Jon Torpey cannot be hired. Changes in style like Towers is pondering could potentially breath some life into the program...a fresh start couldn't hurt, and they do have some good pieces to lead the way.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby CommonMan on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:49 am

Coach Sowell really recruited big athletic middies like Grinnell and Heritage. The middies were really the key to the team as they had the classic two way middies and could keep other teams offensive middies on the field and dominate them athletically.

I think Coach Towers being a large offensive middie himself will tend towards the big middie type. Someone previously posted about a bunch of football players playing lacrosse at Dartmouth. It is difficult to play football and another sport because it is the most demanding of college sports and lacrosse at Dartmouth is perhaps the 2nd most demanding in terms of time spent in practices/meetings/lifts. Coach Towers may change this but I am a fan of 3 hour practices in the spring.

The most important aspect of a player in my opinion is heart. I think that athletes with heart are the most important part of team. There are alot of 'soft' players who want to play Ivy League lacrosse. A team like Cornell that is full of hard nosed players with heart showed how a lot of under recruited high school players can be the best team in the country by working hard and having heart and team unity. Dartmouth doesn't have the New York draw that Cornell does but hopefully can recruit a ton of athletes with heart who will at the very least take it to their opponents.

I don't know Torpey but I hope he is a hard nosed guy if he gets the job.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby transplant08 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:16 pm

CommonMan wrote:Coach Sowell really recruited big athletic middies like Grinnell and Heritage. The middies were really the key to the team as they had the classic two way middies and could keep other teams offensive middies on the field and dominate them athletically.

I think Coach Towers being a large offensive middie himself will tend towards the big middie type. Someone previously posted about a bunch of football players playing lacrosse at Dartmouth. It is difficult to play football and another sport because it is the most demanding of college sports and lacrosse at Dartmouth is perhaps the 2nd most demanding in terms of time spent in practices/meetings/lifts. Coach Towers may change this but I am a fan of 3 hour practices in the spring.

The most important aspect of a player in my opinion is heart. I think that athletes with heart are the most important part of team. There are alot of 'soft' players who want to play Ivy League lacrosse. A team like Cornell that is full of hard nosed players with heart showed how a lot of under recruited high school players can be the best team in the country by working hard and having heart and team unity. Dartmouth doesn't have the New York draw that Cornell does but hopefully can recruit a ton of athletes with heart who will at the very least take it to their opponents.

I don't know Torpey but I hope he is a hard nosed guy if he gets the job.


I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at a couple statistics that I think to some degree reflect how hard nosed a team is: face-offs and ground balls. My guess was that during the Big Green's Ivy championship season (2003) under Sowell and the first couple seasons where Wilson had Sowell's recruits (2004-2005), these stats might reflect a different type of player/attitude. Turns out that's not the case. FO % in 2003 was 56.1, 2005 was 52.8, and 2008 was 54.2. GB differential in 2003 was 27, 2005 was 42, 2008 was 30...all of these in favor of Dartmouth.

This obviously doesn't capture the benefits of playing strong two-way middies, etc, but in these two 'effort' statistics it looks like Dartmouth's players have been fairly steady (or maybe slightly improving given changes in strength of schedule). Of course, these are also categories where the benefits of recruiting excellent athletes from the hockey and football teams might show up.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby Westside on Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:58 pm

Have seen both of the Colorado kids play. Both are good. We'll see how there game translates.
Cavness from Kent Denver was a real leader and took over games from attack. He is relatively small, but really really quick. Good passer and scorer.
Willenbrock from Cherry Creek is a good athlete. Good two way mid that can score and has a great shot that he gets off a lot.
Both are competitors that you want on your team.

Congrats to coach Towers.
"Da Da Da Da Da, I'm Lovin' It!"
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby mystic lax on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:47 pm

does anyone know what the time line is looking like for a 1st asst. to be hired?
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby laxbro3 on Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:07 pm

are there any commits for the class of 2010? rising seniors
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby CommonMan on Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:39 am

transplant08 wrote:
CommonMan wrote:Coach Sowell really recruited big athletic middies like Grinnell and Heritage. The middies were really the key to the team as they had the classic two way middies and could keep other teams offensive middies on the field and dominate them athletically.

I think Coach Towers being a large offensive middie himself will tend towards the big middie type. Someone previously posted about a bunch of football players playing lacrosse at Dartmouth. It is difficult to play football and another sport because it is the most demanding of college sports and lacrosse at Dartmouth is perhaps the 2nd most demanding in terms of time spent in practices/meetings/lifts. Coach Towers may change this but I am a fan of 3 hour practices in the spring.

The most important aspect of a player in my opinion is heart. I think that athletes with heart are the most important part of team. There are alot of 'soft' players who want to play Ivy League lacrosse. A team like Cornell that is full of hard nosed players with heart showed how a lot of under recruited high school players can be the best team in the country by working hard and having heart and team unity. Dartmouth doesn't have the New York draw that Cornell does but hopefully can recruit a ton of athletes with heart who will at the very least take it to their opponents.

I don't know Torpey but I hope he is a hard nosed guy if he gets the job.


I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at a couple statistics that I think to some degree reflect how hard nosed a team is: face-offs and ground balls. My guess was that during the Big Green's Ivy championship season (2003) under Sowell and the first couple seasons where Wilson had Sowell's recruits (2004-2005), these stats might reflect a different type of player/attitude. Turns out that's not the case. FO % in 2003 was 56.1, 2005 was 52.8, and 2008 was 54.2. GB differential in 2003 was 27, 2005 was 42, 2008 was 30...all of these in favor of Dartmouth.

This obviously doesn't capture the benefits of playing strong two-way middies, etc, but in these two 'effort' statistics it looks like Dartmouth's players have been fairly steady (or maybe slightly improving given changes in strength of schedule). Of course, these are also categories where the benefits of recruiting excellent athletes from the hockey and football teams might show up.


What is the Ground Ball differential stat just total season number of ground balls? I think the FO stat is a misleading one. Justin Weinstein won faceoffs in 2003 by being a hard nosed athlete and had no real face off coach. Justin would do a 'jam' and just try to get a 50/50 ball. In 2005, they had the most innovative faceoff coach of all time come into the staff (Towers) and the best long pole ground ball player I have ever seen, Ben Lovejoy, who is currently playing for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

The 2005 team was also perhaps better than the 2003 just had a few bad breaks. The 2005 team beat #2 MD and also beat Notre Dame. The Dartmouth team was convinced they were going to the tournament based on two big wins over top 10 RPI teams. If you go back, many people on this forum thought Dartmouth was going to get an at large bid. Penn State after having a lackluster start of their season won their last 11 games and got in over Dartmouth. Dartmouth was without question the 17th team in 2005. Also 2008 they had Chad Gaudet at the faceoff X who started this year at UVa and certainly was a hard nosed player and was a stud on the Dartmouth football team until injury led him to the Lacrosse field. I think that the stats are less than telling in this regard because of extraordinary players and circumstances surrounding the face off X.

I was consistently underwhelmed by Dartmouths stats regarding ground balls, faceoffs and turnovers in 2009. The 2008 team was pretty good as well compared to the 2009 team. The 2008 team was 500, beat Princeton and had loses to the great UVa, Duke and Cornell teams of 2008. A big difference to 2009 where the stats were as follows:
Dartmouth OPP
GROUND BALLS 443 481
TURNOVERS 246 221
CAUSED TURNOVERS 97 102
FACEOFFS (W-L) 163-191 191-163
Faceoff W-L Pct. .460 .540

So Dartmouth was 38 down in groundballs and 46 % in faceoffs. I think that the decline and the fact that this is Coach Wilson's team - every player was his recruit paints a bleak picture for his career and what direction he left the program heading. I looked at the box score for a few games and the ground ball numbers left me with a bad taste in my mouth early in the season. I really think that Sowell was good at recruiting players with heart to Dartmouth for the most part. For a program that doesn't have the best lacrosse players I think heart will keep you in a few games you wouldn't otherwise be in until you can consistently recruit top players.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby transplant08 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:22 pm

CommonMan - I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, the 2003 team did more with less compared to the 2004-2009 squads. I would say that came from a combination of heart and some good breaks. All I was saying was that there doesn't seem to be a trend in key "heart & hustle" stats that I might have expected. Obviously there are too many variables there to say definitively one team or another had more heart in those areas. There's no doubt that Weinstein gutted out some huge possessions with pure effort. The groundball stat, I think, is somewhat more interesting.

And I think you have to give kudos to Coach Wilson for bringing in guys like Lovejoy and Gaudet, since, as you said, they probably played a big role in Dartmouth's FO success. It's tough to mention how important those guys were and then slam the recruits Wilson used (again, in general I agree with you, but I think you've gotta give him his due on those two guys regardless of them coming from other sports).
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby greendoc on Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:26 pm

Transplant -

Lovejoy was a hockey player who grew up in the area and initially played at BC before transferring to Dartmouth where he walked onto the lacrosse team. By the same token, Gaudet was a football player who switched over to lacrosse his junior year after blowing out his leg before his sophomore football season. If I recall correctly, he was the leading rusher for the Big Green squad during his freshman year.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby Reddawg on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:58 pm

greendoc wrote:Gaudet was a football player who switched over to lacrosse his junior year after blowing out his leg before his sophomore football season. If I recall correctly, he was the leading rusher for the Big Green squad during his freshman year.


I think you're right on that; he did lead the team in rushing during his freshman year. He then suffered a severe knee injury on the first play from scrimmage of his sophomore season. Gaudet decided to play lacrosse for his junior and senior years and was a terrific ssdm as a junior and faceoff man (with a long stick) as a senior. But he was not new to the game, as your post seems to imply. He had been a good lacrosse player in high school.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby greendoc on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:25 pm

no - i was referring to the fact that neither was recruited to Dartmouth to play lacrosse
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby transplant08 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:53 pm

greendoc wrote:no - i was referring to the fact that neither was recruited to Dartmouth to play lacrosse


Yes, I am aware of that. That said (and I can't recall which is the case, or whether both situations were the same), either Wilson approached the two of them about playing for the lacrosse team, or he was willing to be flexible regarding their other athletic responsibilities and made it work with the rest of the team. This is particularly true in Lovejoy's case, as hockey season overlaps with much of the early portion of the season. Either way, he brought them on the team and put them to good use. While this doesn't overshadow his lackluster recruiting in other areas and it is admittedly nice and convenient for a coach to have a couple stellar athletes already on his campus, I still think he gets some degree of credit for doing this.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby CommonMan on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:08 am

transplant08 wrote:
greendoc wrote:no - i was referring to the fact that neither was recruited to Dartmouth to play lacrosse


Yes, I am aware of that. That said (and I can't recall which is the case, or whether both situations were the same), either Wilson approached the two of them about playing for the lacrosse team, or he was willing to be flexible regarding their other athletic responsibilities and made it work with the rest of the team. This is particularly true in Lovejoy's case, as hockey season overlaps with much of the early portion of the season. Either way, he brought them on the team and put them to good use. While this doesn't overshadow his lackluster recruiting in other areas and it is admittedly nice and convenient for a coach to have a couple stellar athletes already on his campus, I still think he gets some degree of credit for doing this.


First off a little more backround on Lovejoy. He commited to BC after his freshman year at BC and finished Deerfield in 3 years to attend BC a year early. He did not have the best year as a freshman hockey player and transferred to Dartmouth where his family has strong ties as they work at a local high school.

Lovejoy came to the team out of the desire to compete mostly. Since he was a transfer Hockey player, he had to sit out a year of competition in Hockey (the 2007-08 year) and he decided to play Lacrosse. I'm not sure that coach Wilson really approached him. I think the desire to compete is the thing that really brought both Gaudet and Lovejoy to the Lacrosse team since they couldn't in their desired sports. I think that Lovejoy and Gaudet both probably approached Wilson about playing although I am not certain of the details and I could be wrong especially about Gaudet.

Also- I do not mean to slam coach Wilson's recruits. I do mean to slam his recruiting philosophy of early commitments when the school couldn't fully commit to players at that point in time. I just think that the reason Dartmouth was a Ivy champion team was a surplus of heart and athleticism that helped cover up any deficiency in skills they might have had relative to say the Syracuse team they lead towards the end of the 4th quarter in the NCAAs that year. I think Sowell was a superior recruiter and Wilson's strength was as a student of the game. Hopefully Towers' can be both at the same time and bring Dartmouth's program to new heights.
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Re: Dartmouth 2010

New postby transplant08 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:32 pm

CommonMan wrote:
First off a little more backround on Lovejoy. He commited to BC after his freshman year at BC and finished Deerfield in 3 years to attend BC a year early. He did not have the best year as a freshman hockey player and transferred to Dartmouth where his family has strong ties as they work at a local high school.

Lovejoy came to the team out of the desire to compete mostly. Since he was a transfer Hockey player, he had to sit out a year of competition in Hockey (the 2007-08 year) and he decided to play Lacrosse. I'm not sure that coach Wilson really approached him. I think the desire to compete is the thing that really brought both Gaudet and Lovejoy to the Lacrosse team since they couldn't in their desired sports. I think that Lovejoy and Gaudet both probably approached Wilson about playing although I am not certain of the details and I could be wrong especially about Gaudet.

Also- I do not mean to slam coach Wilson's recruits. I do mean to slam his recruiting philosophy of early commitments when the school couldn't fully commit to players at that point in time. I just think that the reason Dartmouth was a Ivy champion team was a surplus of heart and athleticism that helped cover up any deficiency in skills they might have had relative to say the Syracuse team they lead towards the end of the 4th quarter in the NCAAs that year. I think Sowell was a superior recruiter and Wilson's strength was as a student of the game. Hopefully Towers' can be both at the same time and bring Dartmouth's program to new heights.


Thanks for the background, I either forgot that or never heard it in the first place, not sure which. Point taken though. Anyway, it would be great if Towers proves to be a strong recruiter and adopts a strategy better suited for Dartmouth's unique situation.

One thing I never got...with the majority of juniors off campus after sophomore summer (I believe you've addressed the positives of this term before), why wouldn't the coaches try take advantage of that and get players to have some fun with the game elsewhere? Sure some guys are going to want big time internships and all that...but for the guys wanting to go abroad, couldn't you try to link them up with clubs in Australia or England or something? That's not a bad recruiting point: "Oh by the way, some of our guys spend a term playing and hanging out in Melbourne every year."
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