Orange Duce

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Re: Orange Duce

New postby randyrad on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:05 pm

randyrad wrote:
MDlaxfan76 wrote:
randyrad wrote:I believe the photo. When I see it, I have solid proof that it can't be a he said - she said case, & I have solid grounds for dismissal.

When did Kelly see the photo ?

Hope Hicks drafted Kelly's initial statement, which defended Porter.



randy, seems to me that there's been ample response to the notion that the photo is dispositive "proof" of abuse rather than simply one more piece in an array of reinforcing indications of such. The testimonies of the women involved-reinforcing each other's testimony, multiple contemporaneous accounts of the abuse from 3rd parties, photo, police report, restraining order, etc.

With or without the photo, there was ample indication of a pattern of behavior, fully credible. The photo simply made it more viscerally understandable, but should be no more credible than the contemporaneous accounts, reinforcing testimonies of multiple women, etc. Much less that a single account deserves serious weight on its own.

It's reported that the FBI had the photo early on. It's an interesting question as to whether Kelly was aware of the photo before it became public, but it should not have been needed for these women's accounts to have been deemed credible and Porter's denials to have been questionable. It probably took some time to reach and interview the various contemporaneous accounts as further confirmation of the credibility of the women's stories, but that, too, would have been reported to McGahn and presumably to Kelly, if interested.

The real question is whether he was ever interested in making sure that there wasn't an actual serious issue with Porter's clearance and access to info, and anyone else's. Or was it only the public furor that required a change of posture, eventually.

Kelly apparently didn't have all the info until the story broke.
He reportedly expressed surprise that Porter had previous wives.
We don't know if Kelly was even aware (yet) of the wives accusations.
Based on what little Kelly's reportedly said to media -- it had not bubbled up to Kelly yet from the WH Counsel & WH Security Manager.
We don't know (yet) what Kelly knew & when.
During his tenure as COS, Kelly reportedly asked, more than once, for a status report/update of interim security clearances.
Until the story broke, there was no red flag yet (at Kelly's level), about Porter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/09/john-ke ... -true.html

On Friday, when asked to clarify the timeline of what happened, Kelly said that he found out Tuesday night "that the accusations were true."

Porter officially resigned Wednesday, after photos of an ex-wife's bruised face were published.

"Forty minutes later he was gone," Kelly added Friday. Pressed for further clarification about whether he ordered Porter's termination, at first Kelly said "yes." But then he quickly added: "Actually, he made the decision 40 minutes later." In a statement Wednesday night, however, Kelly had said he accepted Porter's resignation earlier Wednesday.

Porter, who was a key Kelly ally in controlling the flow of information to President Donald Trump, has denied the abuse accusations. At first, he was slated to stay during a transition period, but Porter left almost immediately.

"I think you also have to remember that. He said very strongly yesterday he's innocent," Trump said.

Kelly said Friday he "didn't even know" on Tuesday night about pictures that showed bruises on the face of one of Porter's ex-wives.

The chief of staff on Friday at first pushed back against reports that he had known for months about the accusations against Porter, saying he had "no" indication. But then he indicated that he had known there were some pressing questions about Porter's background, which were raised as he was undergoing a background investigation to get security clearance.

"In November, I got an update about some of the investigations, and the update was that there were some things that needed to be looked into and literally that was it," Kelly said, referring to Porter's background investigation process. "And Tuesday night I found out. And that's what I've been saying."
Understanding is not necessarily approving.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby randyrad on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:22 pm

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... y-stays-on

Former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said during a Sunday morning interview that White House chief of staff John Kelly should stay in his position as long as President Trump is in the Oval Office.

“As long as Donald Trump is president, our government is best served if John Kelly is in the job of chief of staff,” Johnson told Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union."

“That might be a minority view among my Democratic friends but that is my view,” he said.

Johnson on Sunday also had some "friendly advice" for Kelly: "less press ... fewer public statements."

"Leon Panetta once said that the chief of staff is someone who should not be the issue," Johnson said. "I encourage John to hunker down and do his job.”

Kelly's not a politician -- he's a Marine. (Leon Panetta said that too, about his former military aide & friend).
His failing (in this bizarre arena) is his honesty.
He should avoid all public comment, on all issues.
No matter what he says, it's going to be twisted to portray him in a bad light.
Understanding is not necessarily approving.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Typical Lax Dad on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:49 pm

randyrad wrote:
http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... y-stays-on

Former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said during a Sunday morning interview that White House chief of staff John Kelly should stay in his position as long as President Trump is in the Oval Office.

“As long as Donald Trump is president, our government is best served if John Kelly is in the job of chief of staff,” Johnson told Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union."

“That might be a minority view among my Democratic friends but that is my view,” he said.

Johnson on Sunday also had some "friendly advice" for Kelly: "less press ... fewer public statements."

"Leon Panetta once said that the chief of staff is someone who should not be the issue," Johnson said. "I encourage John to hunker down and do his job.”

Kelly's not a politician -- he's a Marine. (Leon Panetta said that too, about his former military aide & friend).
His failing (in this bizarre arena) is his honesty.
He should avoid all public comment, on all issues.
No matter what he says, it's going to be twisted to portray him in a bad light.


he is an empty barrel.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby a fan on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:11 pm

thatsmell wrote:I'd welcome a ton more toll roads if it eased congestion and commute times. Got to pay to play. I'll pay extra all day, to cruise the express lanes in DC and MD.
Yes. That's the new game plan, both D and R. Private roads for the rich, and the poor can get bent. Additionally, the fees never cover the actual cost for the road, and the best part is that now we are INTENTIONALLY making it more expensive to ship goods in our country. Brilliant.

thatsmell wrote:Maybe that's just the answer Afan. Just like toll roads, get those who use/want more superfluous Federal services to cough-up and pay more on April 17...
Right. That explains all the cutting your party has done for the last year. How much more are they spending than they did under Obama?

The important part for you, thatsmell, is to feign surprise that the deficit and spending are both higher under Republican rule.

:wink:
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wgalum76 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:18 pm

randyrad wrote:
http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... y-stays-on

Former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said during a Sunday morning interview that White House chief of staff John Kelly should stay in his position as long as President Trump is in the Oval Office.

“As long as Donald Trump is president, our government is best served if John Kelly is in the job of chief of staff,” Johnson told Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union."

“That might be a minority view among my Democratic friends but that is my view,” he said.

Johnson on Sunday also had some "friendly advice" for Kelly: "less press ... fewer public statements."

"Leon Panetta once said that the chief of staff is someone who should not be the issue," Johnson said. "I encourage John to hunker down and do his job.”

Kelly's not a politician -- he's a Marine. (Leon Panetta said that too, about his former military aide & friend).
His failing (in this bizarre arena) is his honesty.
He should avoid all public comment, on all issues.
No matter what he says, it's going to be twisted to portray him in a bad light.


I don't think anyone is out to get Kelly, but he did allow someone without security clearance to filter the information flow to Trump. You don't see a problem with that? Additionally, you said that the initial response to the news that one of his key aides was a wife beater was written by someone else (the girlfriend of the wife beater, of all people) and he didn't think it was important enough to check it out before it went out in his name? Spare me the "poor General" talk about whatever he says is going to be twisted - he was supposed to be the calming, normalizing force in a sea of slime. He was not supposed to adding to the slime.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Trinity on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:27 pm

Trump is fighting with the battered women. His team is lying. That’s where we are.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Typical Lax Dad on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:32 pm

Trinity wrote:Trump is fighting with the battered women. His team is lying. That’s where we are.


Just speaking his mind.....they were asking for it..... to the moon Alice.....a dope.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby MDlaxfan76 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:49 pm

wgalum76 wrote:
randyrad wrote:
http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... y-stays-on

Former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said during a Sunday morning interview that White House chief of staff John Kelly should stay in his position as long as President Trump is in the Oval Office.

“As long as Donald Trump is president, our government is best served if John Kelly is in the job of chief of staff,” Johnson told Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union."

“That might be a minority view among my Democratic friends but that is my view,” he said.

Johnson on Sunday also had some "friendly advice" for Kelly: "less press ... fewer public statements."

"Leon Panetta once said that the chief of staff is someone who should not be the issue," Johnson said. "I encourage John to hunker down and do his job.”

Kelly's not a politician -- he's a Marine. (Leon Panetta said that too, about his former military aide & friend).
His failing (in this bizarre arena) is his honesty.
He should avoid all public comment, on all issues.
No matter what he says, it's going to be twisted to portray him in a bad light.


I don't think anyone is out to get Kelly, but he did allow someone without security clearance to filter the information flow to Trump. You don't see a problem with that? Additionally, you said that the initial response to the news that one of his key aides was a wife beater was written by someone else (the girlfriend of the wife beater, of all people) and he didn't think it was important enough to check it out before it went out in his name? Spare me the "poor General" talk about whatever he says is going to be twisted - he was supposed to be the calming, normalizing force in a sea of slime. He was not supposed to adding to the slime.


+1
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby CU77 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:44 pm

a fan wrote:
thatsmell wrote:I'd welcome a ton more toll roads if it eased congestion and commute times. Got to pay to play. I'll pay extra all day, to cruise the express lanes in DC and MD.
Yes. That's the new game plan, both D and R. Private roads for the rich, and the poor can get bent. Additionally, the fees never cover the actual cost for the road, and the best part is that now we are INTENTIONALLY making it more expensive to ship goods in our country. Brilliant.

And, OD wants to sell off assets such as Dulles and Reagan National airports, presumably to the highest bidder. And once these monopoly assets are in private hands, watch the fees skyrocket. Every time a .gov employee needs to travel, we the taxpayers will pay these higher fees into the pockets of the billionaires who could afford to buy the airports in the first place. Over time, these monopoly fees paid will dwarf any profit from the original sale. Which is why the billionaires will want to buy them.
www.si.com/vault/1971/06/14/611594/big-red-votes-itself-no-1
www.si.com/vault/1976/06/07/614885/big-red-sticks-it-to-the-terps
www.si.com/vault/1977/06/06/621812/cornells-wild-irish-rose
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby TuTigers on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:59 pm

Kelly is absolutely a politician :hand: .
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby fattylax on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:35 pm

a fan wrote:
thatsmell wrote:I'd welcome a ton more toll roads if it eased congestion and commute times. Got to pay to play. I'll pay extra all day, to cruise the express lanes in DC and MD.
Yes. That's the new game plan, both D and R. Private roads for the rich, and the poor can get bent. Additionally, the fees never cover the actual cost for the road, and the best part is that now we are INTENTIONALLY making it more expensive to ship goods in our country. Brilliant.

thatsmell wrote:Maybe that's just the answer Afan. Just like toll roads, get those who use/want more superfluous Federal services to cough-up and pay more on April 17...
Right. That explains all the cutting your party has done for the last year. How much more are they spending than they did under Obama?

The important part for you, thatsmell, is to feign surprise that the deficit and spending are both higher under Republican rule.

:wink:

got in a fun debate partying with YOUR US SEnator about the ALREADY in place rich people roads. Tobin Bridge in Boston, Dulles "greenway", Maryland rt. 200.....etc.

Still can't find any "rural" port referenced in the article :roll:
Globalization is just an elitists word for SLAVERY
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby randyrad on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:36 pm

wgalum wrote :
I don't think anyone is out to get Kelly, but he did allow someone without security clearance to filter the information flow to Trump. You don't see a problem with that? Additionally, you said that the initial response to the news that one of his key aides was a wife beater was written by someone else (the girlfriend of the wife beater, of all people) and he didn't think it was important enough to check it out before it went out in his name? Spare me the "poor General" talk about whatever he says is going to be twisted - he was supposed to be the calming, normalizing force in a sea of slime. He was not supposed to adding to the slime.

Porter had an interim security clearance -- I posted an article detailing what that entails & how the WH could function with that.

When Kelly released the first statement, he did not (yet) know that Porter was a "wife beater."

It's not as clear cut as you portray it.
Did you notice that wife #2 said Porter should stay in the job ?

Unless there is an arrest, accusations of domestic violence are not categorically disqualifying for holding a security clearance.

Not to worry -- other than Hicks, Porter's other girlfriends are Russian sparrows under FISA surveillance.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wahoomurf on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote:
Trinity wrote:Trump is fighting with the battered women. His team is lying. That’s where we are.


Just speaking his mind.....they were asking for it..... to the moon Alice.....a dope.


One of the "GS 4" that work/worked in the West Wing------by far the best and the brightest, Dina Powell, has joined Harvard’s Kennedy School as a senior fellow.She was McMaster's right-hand person.

An amazingly talented woman.But a woman with an important job in Electoral Land is a persona non grata. Bye,Bye.Don't let the door hit ya in the bahoolah.No room for those "people". need more White Middle-Aged Men.She was taking up valuable space.Now Kelly can sleep at night.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby gafferhexam on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:03 pm

We don't know (yet) what Kelly knew & when.During his tenure as COS, Kelly reportedly asked, more than once, for a status report/update of interim security clearances.Until the story broke, there was no red flag yet (at Kelly's level), about Porter.

No RR clearly doesn't know. :roll: How is that? Further, how can he speak for WE? Puzzlin? I was led to believe RR was LP's resident expert/apologist on all things Trump.If the current COS asked, more than once, who did he ask?None other than Porter.His job as Presidential Secretary was reading EVERY document that would be presented to POTUS.

Two scenarios as I see them: (1) Porter did not do the job he was hired to do.Why?Because he could filter all the correspondence.Why incriminate yourself when you have control.(2) Porter must have some "juicy" G-2 on the COS.Why else would the COS give Porter a pass after Porter ignored this Kelly's alleged order to present him with the status report/update of interim security clearances?More than once?

And this RR guy gave a precis on how interim security works to LP posters.To wit "I posted an article detailing what that entails & how the WH could function with that".

Perhaps he should have presented his article to the denizens of the Oval Office rather than the hoi polloi on LP? :confusion-shrug:
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby randyrad on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 am

gafferhexam wrote:
We don't know (yet) what Kelly knew & when.During his tenure as COS, Kelly reportedly asked, more than once, for a status report/update of interim security clearances.Until the story broke, there was no red flag yet (at Kelly's level), about Porter.

No RR clearly doesn't know. :roll: How is that? Further, how can he speak for WE? Puzzlin? I was led to believe RR was LP's resident expert/apologist on all things Trump.If the current COS asked, more than once, who did he ask?None other than Porter.His job as Presidential Secretary was reading EVERY document that would be presented to POTUS.

Two scenarios as I see them: (1) Porter did not do the job he was hired to do.Why?Because he could filter all the correspondence.Why incriminate yourself when you have control.(2) Porter must have some "juicy" G-2 on the COS.Why else would the COS give Porter a pass after Porter ignored this Kelly's alleged order to present him with the status report/update of interim security clearances?More than once?

And this RR guy gave a precis on how interim security works to LP posters.To wit "I posted an article detailing what that entails & how the WH could function with that".

Read for yourself. It's not that complicated.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 319409002/

White House spokesman Raj Shah said of the former White House staff secretary. "His background investigation was ongoing. He was operating on an interim security clearance. His clearance was never denied, and he resigned.
...the background check investigates both the allegations and the denials."

Shah said White House officials did not know the "full nature" of the claims – including pictures of Holderness with a black eye – until Wednesday, right before they accepted Porter's resignation."

randyrad wrote:Here's a good explainer about Security Clearances & paper flow in the WH.
The expiration of interim clearances may be what prompted the question by Kelly.

My bet -- a paper flow around Porter (& Kushner) for SCI stuff.
Since Trump likes to listen, more than read, SCI stuff is delivered via "face time" with NSC staffer.
In a classified briefing or review of documents, you ask anyone not cleared to leave the room.
It's not that hard. You don't leave SCI stuff in IN baskets.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ity-216964

So, in essence, Kelly ...created a system that worked around him {Porter}. ...Kelly allowed a system for moving information—from August 2017 through February 2018—that simply worked around the staff secretary. Porter needed to have been kept out of the loop for any truly sensitive material going into the Oval Office. That would have required a highly disciplined NSC staff which, in essence, would have had to have final control over all Oval Office paper flow.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Trinity on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:21 am

Politico reports that after the bruise pictures broke Sarah Huckleberry organized a secret Q and A session with Porter and four reporters to allow the golden boy to explain away the beatings. How does that square with the “40 Minutes Later” Kelly story?
This seems more like what Porter is telling friends, that the WH wanted to fight these charges.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... use-407242

If I were a cartoonist I’d draw an empty barrel and hang four stars on it. The COS has zero credibility left.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Typical Lax Dad on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 am

Trinity wrote:Politico reports that after the bruise pictures broke Sarah Huckleberry organized a secret Q and A session with Porter and four reporters to allow the golden boy to explain away the beatings. How does that square with the “40 Minutes Later” Kelly story?
This seems more like what Porter is telling friends, that the WH wanted to fight these charges.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... use-407242

If I were a cartoonist I’d draw an empty barrel and hang four stars on it. The COS has zero credibility left.


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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Trinity on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:05 am

Ha!
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wgalum76 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:37 am

randyrad wrote:
wgalum wrote :
I don't think anyone is out to get Kelly, but he did allow someone without security clearance to filter the information flow to Trump. You don't see a problem with that? Additionally, you said that the initial response to the news that one of his key aides was a wife beater was written by someone else (the girlfriend of the wife beater, of all people) and he didn't think it was important enough to check it out before it went out in his name? Spare me the "poor General" talk about whatever he says is going to be twisted - he was supposed to be the calming, normalizing force in a sea of slime. He was not supposed to adding to the slime.

Porter had an interim security clearance -- I posted an article detailing what that entails & how the WH could function with that.

When Kelly released the first statement, he did not (yet) know that Porter was a "wife beater."

It's not as clear cut as you portray it.
Did you notice that wife #2 said Porter should stay in the job ?

Unless there is an arrest, accusations of domestic violence are not categorically disqualifying for holding a security clearance.

Not to worry -- other than Hicks, Porter's other girlfriends are Russian sparrows under FISA surveillance.


You must contend that the FBI report does not mention the wife beating since the report was available long before the visual. You also said that Kelly did not write the first statement - which sounds like he did not think it was serious enough to respond himself. Yes, wife #2 said he should stay on the job - it sounds like he is good at his job. This, of course, is irrelevant. There are hundreds of qualified people that could do that job that are not wife beaters - and her motivation for him not becoming unemployed could very well be money motivated.

I hope Kelly does his job trying to herd the cats that are this administrations odd assortment of clowns - but he should stop making public statements. He is not good at it, and there are only so many times he can put his foot in his mouth.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby Trinity on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:55 am

We gotta stop grading on a curve. These guys are terrible at this. So of course they try to blame the FBI again.
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