Yes a tragedy BUT.....

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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby ggait on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:15 pm

Can you imagine the carnage if had a knife?


Or how much worse this would have been if the shooter had 10-15 round mags instead of 30+ mags he undoubtedly used?
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Typical Lax Dad on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:18 pm

ggait wrote:
Can you imagine the carnage if had a knife?


Or how much worse this would have been if the shooter had 10-15 round mags instead of 30+ mags he undoubtedly used?


That doesn't matter.....someone will surely post a video of how quickly someone can change magazines.....
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby CU77 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:01 pm

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prev ... 1823016659
www.si.com/vault/1971/06/14/611594/big-red-votes-itself-no-1
www.si.com/vault/1976/06/07/614885/big-red-sticks-it-to-the-terps
www.si.com/vault/1977/06/06/621812/cornells-wild-irish-rose
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby holmes435 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:59 pm

So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more? But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby CU77 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:34 am

So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Yes.

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more?

I'll take it. It's 3.3% of a BIG number.

But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

Maybe, maybe not. Why don't we try it and see?

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?

You're right of course. No country on earth has managed to solve this problem, so it must be impossible. We Americans are definitely the smartest people on earth, so if we can't solve it, no one can.
www.si.com/vault/1971/06/14/611594/big-red-votes-itself-no-1
www.si.com/vault/1976/06/07/614885/big-red-sticks-it-to-the-terps
www.si.com/vault/1977/06/06/621812/cornells-wild-irish-rose
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby UKLaxfan on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:51 am

holmes435 wrote:So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more? But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?

so your theory is unless you can stop 100% of gun violence, then don't bother it's not worth the effort

How much does the NRA pay you to say that? Is it worth it?

There are lots of things I don't understand about American culture, I freely admit that.

What is the rational legal reason for owning an AR-15 or other automatic assault rifle?

apart from killing kids

Are Deer predatory in the USA? Do they rove around the countryside in herds attacking and killing families in their homes?

The Deer in Europe are vegan and very skittish, when you see one or a herd in a park, you have to be very still and very quiet. If you step on a twig they will turn and run instantly...

perhaps they are in touch with American Deer and presume that all humans have assault weapons and are about to start a massacre.

The people who support the NRA and these massacres, must have a very warped sense of humanity.

Mass shooting = Gun sales go up = more $$$s for me

maybe they believe in culling the population

Wars abroad = air strikes, missiles, drones = culling
Gun violence at home = massacres, gang crime, inner city = culling

it doesn't effect them with secret service protection or living in a secure mansion out in the countryside

after all most of the victims are poor people, and nobody cares about them = population cull

less to pay in social security, healthcare = more money for NRA and me

so blah, blah, thanks for the cash and Citizens United, terrible event, thoughts and prayers until the next one tomorrow or next week. Business is good with the NRA in Congress and the Senate

As I said I don't understand the NRA logic, people die with guns what you need is more guns

I especially like how the NRA has lobbied and won the ban on research on gun crimes or research on how to reduce death by guns. The CDC wanted to spend their own money to research this method of death in US Citizens
Denied!

NRA is King don't shoot the hand that feeds you

keep taking the cash, nobody cares unless it is their kids killed

carry on getting paid, Cha-Ching, Dollar-Dollar bills ya'll

it's all fun and games until the shooting starts... again . :violence-ak47:
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Firefly on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:44 am

CU77 wrote:
So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Yes.

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more?

I'll take it. It's 3.3% of a BIG number.

But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

Maybe, maybe not. Why don't we try it and see?

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?

You're right of course. No country on earth has managed to solve this problem, so it must be impossible. We Americans are definitely the smartest people on earth, so if we can't solve it, no one can.


+1
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Trinity on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:51 am

Cops want gun control. Teachers want it. ER docs want it. Parents want it. But one party and their funders believe our Founders were psychos who would agree we must pay this terrible cost in dead children.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby youthathletics on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:53 am

Sadly, another eff'd up family history. Kid seemed stuck in turmoil from an early age.

Maybe Joy Behar can solve this...she seems to have it all figured out. Evidently, those that pray and have a personal relationship with Christ are now mentally ill....embarrassing. Take someone like this young man, who has already been through complete turmoil in his life, may or may not have had stability in adopted home, lost both parents....and likely had to figure all this out on his own. I am by no means condoning this behavior...but I heard an interesting quote this morning on the radio...." In this day and age, we are so connected, we are no longer connected". Meaning....between electronic technology, relationships are a photo from snapchat, 140 character pre-thought out conversations....almost robotic emotional support coming from likes on their media accounts.

IMHO - these currently sensationalized media events are revealing of a part of our society that is struggling, emotionally. To blame it on guns is the easy way out, guns have been around forever...period. And to try and qualify it based on magazine size, just does not sound right. What we are essentially saying is that because we have emotional instability with some people, that guns must go, again, that just seems wrong, to me. Would it kill the media to sensationalize where guns stopped a would be criminal?

How about the connection to each of the gun deaths with mass shootings....arguably each can be traced to emotional/behavioral problems in their young years, often within the family. This is a systemic problem that needs attention in a child's early years. I also believe schools (preK-HS) are simply not equipped to handle emotional and behavioral issues appropriately. They are bound by legal concerns, which appropriately protect each side of the street, but the child gets caught in the jet-wash.

Thanks for listening through this difficult time of our lives.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Typical Lax Dad on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:55 am

UKLaxfan wrote:
holmes435 wrote:So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more? But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?

so your theory is unless you can stop 100% of gun violence, then don't bother it's not worth the effort

How much does the NRA pay you to say that? Is it worth it?

There are lots of things I don't understand about American culture, I freely admit that.

What is the rational legal reason for owning an AR-15 or other automatic assault rifle?

apart from killing kids

Are Deer predatory in the USA? Do they rove around the countryside in herds attacking and killing families in their homes?

The Deer in Europe are vegan and very skittish, when you see one or a herd in a park, you have to be very still and very quiet. If you step on a twig they will turn and run instantly...

perhaps they are in touch with American Deer and presume that all humans have assault weapons and are about to start a massacre.

The people who support the NRA and these massacres, must have a very warped sense of humanity.

Mass shooting = Gun sales go up = more $$$s for me

maybe they believe in culling the population

Wars abroad = air strikes, missiles, drones = culling
Gun violence at home = massacres, gang crime, inner city = culling

it doesn't effect them with secret service protection or living in a secure mansion out in the countryside

after all most of the victims are poor people, and nobody cares about them = population cull

less to pay in social security, healthcare = more money for NRA and me

so blah, blah, thanks for the cash and Citizens United, terrible event, thoughts and prayers until the next one tomorrow or next week. Business is good with the NRA in Congress and the Senate

As I said I don't understand the NRA logic, people die with guns what you need is more guns

I especially like how the NRA has lobbied and won the ban on research on gun crimes or research on how to reduce death by guns. The CDC wanted to spend their own money to research this method of death in US Citizens
Denied!

NRA is King don't shoot the hand that feeds you

keep taking the cash, nobody cares unless it is their kids killed

carry on getting paid, Cha-Ching, Dollar-Dollar bills ya'll

it's all fun and games until the shooting starts... again . :violence-ak47:


What was the NRA doing in Russia leading up to the 2016 campaign? Follow the money.........
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby thatsmell on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:02 am

It will take the limiting of multiple freedoms to curtail the shooting problems in the U.S:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

The answers are not easy, and they inevitably involve a trade-off: accepting the unacceptable, or restricting our freedoms. The three big ones are freedom of the press (publicity gives oxygen to these kinds of acts, so restricting coverage will reduce copycats); the right to bear arms (guns don't cause human evil, but of course they make it easier to carry out); and due process (targeting potential mass shooters, or mentally ill people in general, is possible, but requires us to curtail Americans' civil rights before they have actually committed a crime).

It is by no means clear that any of these solutions would be more effective than the others, and each of them involves punishing a very large number of people in order to stop the evil-doings of a very small number of people.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Trinity on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 am

Every other country has whack jobs too. They just can’t easily get assault rifles.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby jhu72 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 am

Why do we not have universal background checks with a computerized registry? - REAL CHECKS, not a wish and a prayer checks where the government is given insufficient time to do a reliable check. This will not stop all attacks, may not have stopped this one, but it is guaranteed to improve the situation the further into the future you go after implementation. This will not totally solve the problem.

I am not so sure the ban of AR15 will do much to solve the problem in the short term. If we had maintained the ban and reauthorized under Bush, we would have a smaller problem today, but I don't think we can put the horse back in the barn and expect immediate results. Re-instituting the ban will help but again only as you move farther into the future after implementation. This will not totally solve the problem.

The real problem is we live in a society with too many social pressures, most of them related to the acquisition of money. Violence is the result. The more pressure, the more violence. Gun's are simply the modality of choice for implementing that violence because they are so easy to obtain and are the best "bang for the buck".
Last edited by jhu72 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby youthathletics on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:36 am

Every other country has whack jobs too. They just can’t easily get assault rifles.
That sounds like you are saying it's okay w/6 deaths and a revolver or 1-2 with a sawed off shotgun...we just want to minimize everything. But I know that is not what you meant.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby Trinity on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:40 am

Yes, I believe fewer deaths is better. I believe cops should not face weapons of war on American streets. Teachers should not face them in schools
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby jhu72 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:44 am

Trinity wrote:Yes, I believe fewer deaths is better. I believe cops should not face weapons of war on American streets. Teachers should not face them in schools


... and as a result would not have to carry those weapons themselves.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby calourie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 am

How's that old "let's just toss the same tired arguments around and do nothing" working for y'all.
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby wgalum76 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:10 am

holmes435 wrote:So you all want to ban AR-15's and standard capacity magazines?

Absolutely - there is no reason for them in the hands of private citizens

Congrats, you've solved 3.3% of gun violence, maybe a little more? But that 3+% will probably just switch to pistols or shotguns or homemade explosive devices or something else.

3.3% translates to how many lives? If it is 1 or more, it is worth it. I contend that the carnage from a pistol or shotgun would be less or they would be using them now.

Anyone have any actual, substantive solutions within the context of our constitution? Or are we just gonna repeat the same feel-good bans every time this happens to make us sleep a little better, but in the end won't actually accomplish anything?

I think you can have an AR-15 in the hands of a well regulated militia, just like the 2nd amendment says.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby foreverlax on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 am

The NRA has found a way to ensure that any R who says anything anti-gun is viewed as anti-American. Much the way no one from either side of the isle, at any level, ever say a negative word against Israel.

10 of millions of dollars flows in to the NRA, which is then funneled out to ensure this never changes. The gun lobby, considering the actual dollars involved, is a fraction compared to the drug lobby, yet they have 10x more control over the Rs. All because the NRA has convinced voters their rating system is the only one that matters when voting.

....why is the NRA given non-profit status?
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Re: Yes a tragedy BUT.....

New postby fattylax on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:22 am

All of these killings are sickening....no question. As I posted yesterday, Chicago killings somehow don't get even close to the same coverage, especially here on the WC. The reasons and rationale are myriad. And we have discussed Illinois/Chicago's gun laws ad nauseam.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

To me, it starts with mental health and gun sales (more importantly ammo) being curtailed. HIPPA be damned. But, as many have stated, death seekers will find other means. ( Why is inner city murder rates underreported ?)

On the flip side, considering how many weapons, coupled with millions of "unsound" minds, it is truly remarkable that we don't have so many more of these killings.

Also on the flip side, the existence of evil humans to do harm throughout history......pervades today and recent years in Syria, many African countries, Myanmar, etc. Our forefathers understood this. The collective 'you' may see it as archaic and mundane madness to think gun ownership curtails our own government intrusions and control (Ed Snowden).....and now we have trump in the white house.

What does make this country great is our ever shrinking/growing freedoms. (more shrinking recently) and rational people discussing issues. fatty has a picture of Blair Mountain in his office......and understands the pretends use of deadly force against labor/workers throughout the US's history. This may seem like off topic tangent, but would much rather live here in the USA where freedoms like posting fake news (the onion) won't get you thrown in jail like it does in the UK and other Euro countries. "hate speech" arrests, could you imagine that in this country?

We can and will do better. We have laws and cyber infrastructure in place (Devin Kelley and Air Forces dismal failure to inform) but we waste our resources on meaningless algorithms tracking trump tweets and 40 year olds watching porn. (NSA is NOT according to General whatever his name is )
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