Orange Duce

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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wahoomurf on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:22 am

seacoaster wrote:An opinion:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/opin ... n=Trending

"Mr. Trump’s action does nothing to change the past.

But it might change the lives or convictions of people whom President Trump does know: his own personal firewall. By pardoning Mr. Libby, Mr. Trump sends a message to Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen and any of his other close aides who are facing or may face potential prosecution pursuant to the investigation by Robert Mueller, the special counsel.

Mr. Manafort was indicted in October for hiding that he was working for a Russian-backed Ukrainian party while lobbying in the United States; charges against him could put him away for the rest of his life. F.B.I. agents raided the home and offices of Mr. Trump’s longtime lawyer Michael Cohen this week; according to the Department of Justice, he is under criminal investigation by the Southern District of New York, and he may face charges of bank and wire fraud for paying hush money to prevent news of past sexual affairs from becoming public during the election. By pardoning Mr. Libby, Mr. Trump sends a message to those who might incriminate him in crimes related to conspiring with Russians to tamper with the election: The message is that he will rectify any sadness that protecting a president might cause.

The thing is, Mr. Trump is unlikely to be able to use his pardon power to get out of his legal jam. That’s because several of his potential firewalls — Mr. Manafort, Mr. Cohen and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner — could be charged at the state level for the financial crimes they’re suspected of. A federal pardon would simply move their prosecution beyond Mr. Trump’s control.

And there are many more people who can incriminate the president, whereas in the investigation into Ms. Wilson’s exposure, Mr. Libby was one of the only people who could say whether the president had authorized the leak of a C.I.A. officer’s identity. Already, three key witnesses have agreed to cooperate with Mr. Mueller against the president, so it’s probably too late to start silencing witnesses.

Finally, neither Mr. Trump nor his thoroughly outmatched legal team knows the full exposure he or potential witnesses face. Given the involvement of Russians trying to undermine the United States, the evidence Mr. Mueller may already have collected could well be even uglier than deliberately burning a C.I.A. spy for political gain.

That makes it a lot harder to pull off what George Bush did — protect his firewall.

Finally, Mr. Trump is running out of time. As NBC reported this week, Mr. Mueller is already preparing the first of two reports to Congress. This one will lay out the ways the president has already obstructed his investigation into election tampering. It will reportedly include the discussion of pardons with Mr. Manafort and Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Mike Flynn (who pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate in November). In other words, within weeks Mr. Mueller will inform Congress that President Trump has been offering pardons specifically to undercut the investigation into his actions.

Mr. Trump’s pardon of Mr. Libby makes it crystal clear that he thinks even the crime of making the country less safe can be excused if done in the service of protecting the president. But it doesn’t mean the pardon will protect him."


BOKONON SAYS "IT'S JUST MORE FOMA". :teasing-blah: So do the thousands of folks that don't givva about truth, justice and the rule of law. :clap: Joe Arpaio is laughing his chords off.I am as well....at a grown up with the name SCOOTER.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby hobart59 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:12 pm

What, no applause for the strike in Syria? Wow!!!!
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby MDlaxfan76 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:24 pm

Applause?

For what? Deciding to strike? Or deciding to have that strike be restrained and multilateral, following Mattis's advice?

I tend to think that the strike was appropriate and necessary, and it's likely that the restraint recommended by Mattis was the right call, but Assad remains in power and will remains so, unchastened, undeterred. He will continue to brutalize the Syrian people, and Russia and Iran will get what they want strategically.

Did Trump read the script of the rationale without flubbing? Yes.
Was "Mission accomplished" appropriate?
I don't think so.

Did we hit our targets? Sounds like yes. Were the Syrians able to prevent them from doing so? Sounds like no. Did the Russians restrain themselves? so far.

But it only makes the point that we can hit what we want, when we want, nothing more. Otherwise, status quo. Not a time to sound triumphant.

Was the timing on when DJT pulled the trigger related to other issues breaking yesterday? It's a shame that we, and the world, have to even wonder.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby hobart59 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:44 pm

The strike on Syria was to send a message to the Syrian regime to not use chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Nothing more nothing less. Trump has no desire to invade or to over throw Assad. The mission was to send a message. I would imagine there's another subtle message that might be pickup by both North Korea and Iran.....

MDlaxfan76 wrote:Was the timing on when DJT pulled the trigger related to other issues breaking yesterday? It's a shame that we, and the world, have to even wonder.


hobart59 wrote:Trump can't get a break..... he's always conniving. But Trump doesn't play those games.... he does what's required.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby MDlaxfan76 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:13 pm

Yup, you keep buying that hobart. Trump's totally honest, never impulsive, and couldn't possibly make decisions that are driven by political posturing.

As I said, it's a shame we have to even wonder about his specific timing. I'm not coming to any conclusion, though, as it seems to me that it was going to happen at some point, and it at least it was a coordinated attack.

I don't have an issue with the choice, indeed it was apparently what Mattis advocated against Trump's desire to do more, so good for Trump for listening. We can only hope that the 'message' was taken more seriously than last year's action.

But "Mission accomplished" is remarkably off script. But Trump simply can't help himself from self-congratulation.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby All Seeing Eye on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:14 am

hobart59 wrote:The strike on Syria was to send a message to the Syrian regime to not use chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Nothing more nothing less. Trump has no desire to invade or to over throw Assad. The mission was to send a message. I would imagine there's another subtle message that might be pickup by both North Korea and Iran.....


Wasn't that the same message delivered last April when the same thing occurred? That attack apparently did not deter Assad from doing it again as will this attack.


Add to this the clueless WH Press secretary tweets out a picture today of DOPUS and staff meeting to decide on Syria actions - only problem is the photo shows VP Pence at the meeting which could not have occurred Thursday night or Friday as he was in Peru for the Americas summit.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wahoomurf on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:40 pm

I believe the actions taken won't deter Assad from killing his own people.Ya' can't make Vampires, vegetarians.The calming influences of the Brits and the French and the sanity displayed by Gen.Matt is (keeping Trump out of the decision) prevented carpet bombing the entire country.

But the NIMBY message is more subtle: "We reach high dudgeon when Syrians are gassed.We'll do anything for those poor folks.....with one exception.....the 11 Million displaced souls are not WELCOME to come to the U.K., France and certainly NOT the U.S.A.

Greenland, Namibia, Nunavut, and Mongolia, perhaps.But certainly but NOT in our collective backyards. :naughty:
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby cradleandshoot on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:31 pm

Murf you may have just stated my quote for the year so far... you can't make a vampire a vegetarian. There could be some ambiguity about a strict diet of blood not falling into the cracks somewhere between vegetarian and carnivore sort of like trying to differentiate tomato juice from blood sausage... :D
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby gafferhexam on Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:12 pm

wahoomurf wrote:I believe the actions taken won't deter Assad from killing his own people.Ya' can't make Vampires, Vegetarians.The calming influences of the Brits and the French and the sanity displayed by Gen.Matt is (keeping Trump out of the decision) prevented carpet bombing the entire country.

But the NIMBY message is more subtle: "We reach high dudgeon when Syrians are gassed.We'll do anything for those poor folks.....with one exception.....the 11 Million displaced souls are not WELCOME to come to the U.K., France and certainly NOT the U.S.A.

Greenland, Namibia, Nunavut, and Mongolia, perhaps.But certainly but NOT in our collective backyards. :naughty:

Like WC Fields,Assad loves children....partially cooked. :scared-yipes: :evil_misc:
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby fattylax on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:24 pm

hobart59 wrote:The strike on Syria was to send a message to the Syrian regime to not use chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Nothing more nothing less. Trump has no desire to invade or to over throw Assad. The mission was to send a message. I would imagine there's another subtle message that might be pickup by both North Korea and Iran.....

MDlaxfan76 wrote:Was the timing on when DJT pulled the trigger related to other issues breaking yesterday? It's a shame that we, and the world, have to even wonder.


hobart59 wrote:Trump can't get a break..... he's always conniving. But Trump doesn't play those games.... he does what's required.

Pleaz with this TAATS nonsense......raytheon stock went up $6 bucks last week. Anyone buy at last weeks low of $216 and sell when it got to $222? Doc Martin went up $10........

Guess knowledge of military strikes isn't considered against the law when "day" trading :violin:

Storm shadow missles, or shadow play.
(we play this loud from our B 1's.......it scares the locals....sayz Captain Trump)

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Re: Orange Duce

New postby a fan on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:03 am

Fatty with a rare miss. That is a total flaming dumpster fire of a cover. Maybe the Killers should aim lower and cover a song from the Pet Shop Boys, or something. (hope you had a nice weekend)
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby fattylax on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 am

A rare miss, eh A FAN ! you must be one of those purists, like Bryan Ferry bashing Mike Bolton for covering sittin on the dock of the bay. (Ian Curtis had a lousy voice and the Killers did a fine job)

Speaking of Ferry, fatty's TAATS comment about "missle strikes" are great financial boons for what my hero General Smedley Butler warned us about all those years ago.......and IKE

Fatty's point, SAME OLD SCENE............pretends on both sides are blinded by their temporary finacial woes and allow THE KILLERS to make profits. (did Hillary really just speak at another $30K a plate democratic fundy )

Same old scene indeed......if this one is a miss, time to perish

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Re: Orange Duce

New postby a fan on Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm

fattylax wrote:A rare miss, eh A FAN ! you must be one of those purists, like Bryan Ferry bashing Mike Bolton for covering sittin on the dock of the bay. (Ian Curtis had a lousy voice
So did James Brown. And John Lennon. And Bob Mould. If I wanted to hear technically pure singers, I'd listen to Opera. This is rock and roll, man. Of course the singers are crap....that's like the best part. :wink:

I'm not a purist at all.....but I know a crap cover when I hear one. As I said...rare miss, my man.

Have a great week. (and yes: green light on Roxy)
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby njbill on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:35 pm

I don’t think John Lennon ever covered Dock of the Bay. Are you thinking of Stand By Me, which he did cover?
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby gafferhexam on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote:Yup, you keep buying that hobart. Trump's totally honest, never impulsive, and couldn't possibly make decisions that are driven by political posturing.

As I said, it's a shame we have to even wonder about his specific timing. I'm not coming to any conclusion, though, as it seems to me that it was going to happen at some point, and it at least it was a coordinated attack.

I don't have an issue with the choice, indeed it was apparently what Mattis advocated against Trump's desire to do more, so good for Trump for listening. We can only hope that the 'message' was taken more seriously than last year's action.

But "Mission accomplished" is remarkably off script. But Trump simply can't help himself from self-congratulation.

One click and he can disappear.
"D.C. is no longer a swamp.Foggy Bottom is rapidly descending into the hadal zone......with no bottom in sight".

"Memory transforms rather than presents, an accurate snapshot of experience".
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby wgalum76 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:38 pm

njbill wrote:I don’t think John Lennon ever covered Dock of the Bay. Are you thinking of Stand By Me, which he did cover?


Don't ever remember Lennon doing Dock of the Bay. I probably would have liked it if he did, though.
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby a fan on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:30 pm

njbill wrote:I don’t think John Lennon ever covered Dock of the Bay. Are you thinking of Stand By Me, which he did cover?
I was replying to Fattylax's assertion that "Ian Curtis had a lousy voice".....and saying that Lennon, Mould, and Brown also had according-to-Hoyle "lousy voices", but implying that that's what makes 'em great.

Love seeing folks music tastes at the WC.

Back to Trump-bashing.....
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby njbill on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:23 pm

Sorry, I misread your post.

On the subject of Lennon's voice, he came in at no. 5 in Rolling Stone's list of top 100 singers (Otis was 8, Aretha 1).

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/list ... s-20101202
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby holmes435 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:51 pm

Trump has reportedly halted new sanctions against Russia

It's just head scratching the kind of kissing up Trump does to Russia after everything that's gone down. Anyone have any insight?
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Re: Orange Duce

New postby randyrad on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:31 pm

We were going to sanction the Russian companies that make their air defense systems, but after the results of the raid, we prefer they keep manufacturing & selling them to their allies.

Maybe we're trying to get a seat at the table with Russia, Iran & Turkey on how to end the slaughter in Syria.
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