Conference Realignment coming

Conference Realignment coming

New postby NJLaxCoach27 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:40 am

This has a huge impact in lacrosse...
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/0 ... fle-coming

I have talked to several schools involved and it seems like all but a done deal. A new conference will be made up of the following schools (info from article above)
Cabrini, Gwynedd Mercy, Marywood, Immaculata & Neumann from the CSAC
Arcadia from MAC
Marymount and Wesley from the CAC

This is an all-sports conference but from a purely lacrosse perspective:
The conference wouldn't have an AQ for at least 2 years, assuming this is in place by 2017-2018, so Cabrini wouldn't have the automatic AQ they've had the last 15+ years. That sound you hear is all the Pool B teams groaning. This is a much better conference for these teams. It's more equitably competative - though I think Cabrini maintains their dominance it's not as assured as it once was in the CSAC.

The CSAC is decimated. Leaving behind Centenary (NJ), Rosemont & Keystone. I am told they were left out due to lack of total sports. Rosemont just announced addition of Women's golf and at least 2 more sports soon so they could be joining later? Unless the CASC can get 3 teams to jump in, their AQ goes away until they can get back up to at least 6 lacrosse teams. Alvernia jumps to mind immediately as an addition, they used to be in the old PAC with a number of these teams, plus they all play each other OOC already. Alvernia is getting killed in the MAC. The MAC is almost too big so either siphon off a few teams or MAYBE those three jump in the MAC (without football, I don't see the fit going to the MAC). Hood in MD is another school that might be a good fit. The others I would throw out there is Wilkes or perhaps La Roche and Grove CIty?

York may look to exit the CAC for a better fit.
Montclair, Stockton and Kean still remain independent. Montclair St. at least is going to make it a go as an independent. I don't see Kean or Stockton being added to CSAC, doesn't make sense school-wise. Also those three want to go together - wherever that may be.

This will have a bigger domino effect to be sure. This will not be the end of conference realignments.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby footlax74 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:46 am

Couldn't the new conference apply for a waiver when it comes to AQs?
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby Doxology on Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:55 pm

NJLaxCoach27 wrote: Hood in MD is another school that might be a good fit. The others I would throw out there is Wilkes or perhaps La Roche and Grove CIty?

This will have a bigger domino effect to be sure. This will not be the end of conference realignments.


This IS interesting!! I think you're right in that the moving & shaking is not over.

However, I do not see Grove City joining a league on the other side of PA - only because they are in the President's Athletic Conference in nearly everything else so in reality (back to the moving/shaking) I see them joining the ORLC along with their other PAC teams. However, I also believe that this could spell the end of the ORLC in the near future as SVC, Thiel, Bethany, Westminster, and W&J all belong in the PAC. The PAC would then get an automatic bid and the ORLC would be kaput:

SVC
Bethany
Thiel
Westminster
W&J
Grove City
Chatham

That leaves Transy, MSJ, Hanover in limbo again (though will the Heartland begin to sponsor??)


Very interesting stuff indeed!!!!
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby SixBySix on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:30 pm

York to the Centennial could be fascinating. Great geographical fit, academics aren't that much worse than the trail end of the conference, and from a lacrosse perspective could give the conference a kick-start back into the best in D3 race.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby jknows25 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:50 am

SixBySix wrote:York to the Centennial could be fascinating. Great geographical fit, academics aren't that much worse than the trail end of the conference, and from a lacrosse perspective could give the conference a kick-start back into the best in D3 race.


As someone with a degree from York, I would be pretty happy if the Centennial accepted York into the conference, however don't see that ever happening because of the academics and profile of York. A school like F&M is $50,000 (just using F&M as an example, would imagine most CC schools are in this ballpark) a year and York is around $20,000.

As I stated on the CAC page, I haven't heard anything about York leaving the CAC, but yes it would behoove them to find a better fit....however that has been the case for the last 15 years or so. The word was York was trying to leave the CAC when Catholic and Gallaudet left in the mid 2000s, but the only logical fits were the MAC and a few schools didn't want to have York in the league.

Southern Virginia has applied to join the ODAC, which they are being considered for because they have football now.

Plenty of shakeups to happen still this summer and throughout the academic year.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby scottharris on Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:02 pm

jknows25 wrote:Plenty of shakeups to happen still this summer and throughout the academic year.

Multiple schools applied to the ODAC. I just don't know any other details, like who applied, how many applied, how many are being considered, when any will join if accepted, etc.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby thatsmell on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:09 am

Interesting talk.

The rumors have ben swirling for years about a CAC shakeup. But they dont have much leverage with few football teams. But It did get a boost with Frosty. If there are other realignments, they would be well served to take in the leftovers to boost enrollment. Something they have done before with Hood and Villa Julie/Stevenson. It's always been a geographically diverse conference. Some of those CSAC schools are not that far out of the footprint.

UMW could work for the ODAC. Seems a fit on a multitude of levels. Been speculation on that one for years, but the lack of football is worth mentioning.

York seems an odd fit for the Centennial. Can't really see that happening. It doesn't fit the Centennial's "image." They seem a better fit for the CAC IMO. The CAC could also try to siphon off some MAC schools. Fun to see how it shakes out!
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby youngred on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:35 am

York to the Centennial is not a possibility.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby scottharris on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:57 pm

thatsmell wrote:UMW could work for the ODAC. Seems a fit on a multitude of levels. Been speculation on that one for years, but the lack of football is worth mentioning.

That would be a monumental long shot. As of now, they aren't even eligible to be considered. ODAC bylaws state it is a private school league. For reference, for a school to become a member, 2/3 of the Board has to approve it, then 3/4 of the Presidents have to approve it. My guess is a change in membership bylaws would also require the same. I doubt changing it to allow public schools would ever get 2/3 approval from the ADs.

But even if they were a private school, lack of football would get them nowhere at this point.

http://static.psbin.com/y/k/t8m6ou9r58m ... -final.pdf
See page 10

ARTICLE III - MEMBERSHIP
Section 1: Conditions. Membership in this conference shall be limited to private four-year educational institutions
of collegiate rank which are members of appropriate regional accrediting associations.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby almostbaldeagle on Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:42 am

scottharris wrote:
thatsmell wrote:UMW could work for the ODAC. Seems a fit on a multitude of levels. Been speculation on that one for years, but the lack of football is worth mentioning.

That would be a monumental long shot. As of now, they aren't even eligible to be considered. ODAC bylaws state it is a private school league. For reference, for a school to become a member, 2/3 of the Board has to approve it, then 3/4 of the Presidents have to approve it. My guess is a change in membership bylaws would also require the same. I doubt changing it to allow public schools would ever get 2/3 approval from the ADs.

But even if they were a private school, lack of football would get them nowhere at this point.

http://static.psbin.com/y/k/t8m6ou9r58m ... -final.pdf
See page 10

ARTICLE III - MEMBERSHIP
Section 1: Conditions. Membership in this conference shall be limited to private four-year educational institutions
of collegiate rank which are members of appropriate regional accrediting associations.


One would think Ferrum fits this criteria? :confusion-shrug: It would make more sense than the USA South
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby Tactful Lax on Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:38 am

That has got to be one of the most archaic provisions in all of college sports. Sounds like good ol' boy Southern croneyism is alive and well.

If the ODAC is serious about strengthening its conference, it needs to allow state schools in. Can you imagine the ODAC if it added Salisbury, CNU and Mary Washington? Those 3 schools won 20 of the 21 championships in the CAC for the 2016-17 school year. The ODAC would immediately become a power conference in pretty much any sport if that happened.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby mid20slax on Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:41 am

Salisbury can't switch conferences because they're going D1 guys......

This thread has evolved from legitimate news about a new conference to just pandering to create men's lacrosse power conferences. There is a ton of work that goes into conferences and institutions won't let in others "just because." These schools are your benchmarks and so it would behoove them to have schools that don't fit their mold (why the ODAC being all private in their bylaws makes sense).

There is a better chance of Bryn Mawr becoming a co-ed school or Hopkins switching to D3 than the Centennial adding York...
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby Tactful Lax on Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:01 am

What is your source that says Salisbury is going D1?
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby minkhoo on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:58 pm

:laughing-rolling:

FYI, Ferrum is an associate member of the ODAC in swimming (m&w).
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby scottharris on Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:34 pm

Tactful Lax wrote:That has got to be one of the most archaic provisions in all of college sports. Sounds like good ol' boy Southern croneyism is alive and well.

If the ODAC is serious about strengthening its conference, it needs to allow state schools in. Can you imagine the ODAC if it added Salisbury, CNU and Mary Washington? Those 3 schools won 20 of the 21 championships in the CAC for the 2016-17 school year. The ODAC would immediately become a power conference in pretty much any sport if that happened.

Conference membership is about a lot more than just games. In fact, on the field success isn't even one of the listed criteria for evaluation of a prospective member to the ODAC, as shown below.

ODAC bylaws list the below as the criteria for evaluating a prospective member
* Academic Profile
* Graduation/retention rates especially comparing athletes and non athletes
* Athletic Profile, percentage of budget for athletics; sports sponsorship; sport equity and equity between men’s and women’s teams (if applicable); and the degree of integration of athletics into the total campus program and its relation to academics. Budget Impact on the current members, especially travel expenses
* Impact on conference scheduling
* Automatic qualifier considerations
* Needs of ODAC for additional competition in particular sport(s) at the time
* Focus on undergraduate Liberal Arts education
* Independent/private, not public
* Size of institution
* Financial strength of applicant
* Financial aid record (NCAA report)
* NCAA and conference record of violations and citations
* Whether the addition of the applicant school will likely require the creation of divisions in ODAC.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby mid20slax on Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:52 pm

Tactful Lax wrote:What is your source that says Salisbury is going D1?


Jac Coyne's School of Salisbury Sarcasm

My point was that the Salisbury to D1 absurdity that comes out every year has exactly the same amount of credence as all of this conference prognostication (aside from the original post, which I had heard previous to this forum and I believe to be 100% true).
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby DukeGv43 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:56 pm

Doxology wrote:
NJLaxCoach27 wrote: Hood in MD is another school that might be a good fit. The others I would throw out there is Wilkes or perhaps La Roche and Grove CIty?

This will have a bigger domino effect to be sure. This will not be the end of conference realignments.


This IS interesting!! I think you're right in that the moving & shaking is not over.

However, I do not see Grove City joining a league on the other side of PA - only because they are in the President's Athletic Conference in nearly everything else so in reality (back to the moving/shaking) I see them joining the ORLC along with their other PAC teams. However, I also believe that this could spell the end of the ORLC in the near future as SVC, Thiel, Bethany, Westminster, and W&J all belong in the PAC. The PAC would then get an automatic bid and the ORLC would be kaput:

SVC
Bethany
Thiel
Westminster
W&J
Grove City
Chatham

That leaves Transy, MSJ, Hanover in limbo again (though will the Heartland begin to sponsor??)

Plan is for the Presidents to take shape with those programs listed, yes: remember Earlham & Anderson are starting so that makes 5 in the Heartland (Transy, Hanover, Anderson, Earlham, MDJ). Defiance would be the 6th but they are done...small chance they return. My source says Heartland may look at some independents to join: my thought would be Illi Tech whom starts in 2018-19 or Westminster(mo) who is suspending there program this year to attempt another restart for 2018-19 as well.

Very interesting stuff indeed!!!!
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby joe2123 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:39 am

How about the possibility of York joining the landmark, that may make sense for them since they are close to etown and similar in size and academic...?
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby USLX on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:11 pm

joe2123 wrote:How about the possibility of York joining the landmark, that may make sense for them since they are close to etown and similar in size and academic...?


York has over 4,000 students and would be the largest school in the Landmark, by far. I am not sure why the Landmark would want them to join, even as it is a geophraphic match.
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Re: Conference Realignment coming

New postby blanked on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:38 pm

It makes sense for SoVa to make the move to the ODAC geographically, I also feel like CNU would be a good fit geographically but I am not sure if it fits into the ODAC school style. I would think some schools (at least from a lacrosse standpoint) would want to play in the CAC. Obviously you have Salisbury, York has been a main player recently, CNU and Frost are moving in the right direction, and hopefully a resurgence from MaryWash. I think what keeps schools away from the CAC is travel. Salisbury, York, CNU, and Frostburg can make for a good long drive depending on where a school is located.
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