Salisbury to D-I?

Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby jusreLaxin on Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:09 am

laxfani, WOW!

The game has changed, the quality of player has changed. We get it...D1 has the pick of the litter, but Salisbury, and other top D3 teams, are able recruit very good players.
I'm not going to talk, or worry about who in the past transferred from D3 to D1 and didn't make it. We are talking about Salisbury's ability to play in D1, and they are very capable of playing, and competitively.

You're a bitter, bitter man!
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby thatsmell on Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:44 am

LaxNews wrote:How about this one: Would a team consisting of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team D3 All-Americans, with a full season together, win the D1 National Championship?


I'll say not necessarily, but they could certainly compete.

I've seen some VERY good D1 teams with studs across the board NOT win the D1 NCAA championship. "Best teams not to win a championship"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13333&p=148689&hilit=Best+team+to+win+championship#p148689
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby JAFO on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:00 am

I'd love to see a best of MD tournament in OC after Memorial Day. Settle this down at the Ocean Hon.

Not sure why folks have to talk about Salisbury moving up. They are the best D3 program and have been for 25 years. It is a special program why does it have to be something other than that. What coach Berkman has done is amazing. He has a great staff but I'd be surprised if the Gulls can remain this dominant when he retires.

Jason Coffman was a beast, but he was also the right player at the right time. There wasn't a better player who could back a defender in get to GLE, inside roll and dive. Playing today without the dive his numbers might be a little less. That being said lets not forget that in addition to being Salisbury's leading career goal scorer (249) he is also their assist leader (202). Great player and a great kid.
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby MrLax2U on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:14 am

Great conversation, Gents. A Christmas gift for us lax fans.

Having said that; just after Jason Coffman graduated (1993-96) Will Van Dorn (Kean/Montclair St 1997-2000) amassed 450 points in 57 games. Did you ever see him play? Can you give us some back ground on him and his performance?


Did any of our posters see Will Van Dorn play? And could they give us some color on his career?
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby genesrfree on Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:06 am

I think laxfanli's points are pretty valid! As I already said, this is a great offseason discussion, it happens every year and it happens on other sports forums as well...the argument about divisions. In my opinion, the bottom line is better athletes always follow money and the best competition and in lacrosse, that is D1. No arguing from me that Salisbury is a great program and no argument from me that D3 schools can beat D1 schools, but, D1 across the board is better lacrosse with better players. Salisbury in lacrosse is like Mt. Union in football, a perennial power. I get it that some kids would rather play for national championship caliber team, i.e. Salisbury or Mt. Union in football, but in lacrosse, the best athletes will go to D1 schools.

There are reasons kids end up on D3 rosters and it's usually because they're not good enough for D1.
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby Boomakega on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:30 pm

A relevant stat for this discussion might well be assist/turn over ratio. Many D3 AA players have ratios below 1. Turn overs are not considered in the AA voting (meaning not collected when players are submitted for consideration). Fay and Stanton for instance had very low ratios. You just don’t see that even at the D1 HM AA level for attack. And then one has to consider the overall competition associated with those results. A great play or move or shot is just that and works at every level. But the errors that create losses at D1 can be more easily overcome at the d3 level.
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby jusreLaxin on Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:54 pm

Genesfree, it will be interesting to see how VMI does in the scrimmage against Salisbury on Jan 30. D1 v. D3 I hope nobody told the boys on Salisbury that they don't have a chance...!
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby Dehuntshigwa'es on Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:14 pm

W&L has played actual games against vmi for the past 30 years. These are not run as scrimmages and I think they have won 27 out of 30 contests with VMI.. There are about 70 D1 programs now and the bottom 15 would fall victim to most top 20 D3 teams
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby genesrfree on Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:37 am

Well, comparing a bottom D1 team to the top D3 team is not relevant to my comments at all. Again, the top talent will always seek the highest competition and money in any sport, including lacrosse. There are reasons W&L has 55 guys on their roster and VMI has 35, and for W&L fans I don't need to go in to that, because they know. VMI is probably the toughest D1 program to recruit to because it isn't a college!

Not really a strong comparison! But always a fun off-season conversation.

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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby D3 Fan on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:14 pm

Genesrfree, you are correct that the TOP talent will almost always pick the top level of collegiate competition. But if that were the case, then how come ~1/4 of NFL players come from non-FBS colleges? Did these kids not want to play at the top level of college football or is there more to the story?

At some point, it's clear that high school kids can slip through the cracks, develop during college and get on scouts radars, so the same can be said for a small sport like lacrosse, as there is plenty of higher end talent that ends up at the "lower" levels. It's clear that there are a lot of guys in D2 and D3 that could have had solid careers in D1 had they chosen to go to one of the 70 or so D1 schools but since kids pick a school for a variety of reasons other than lacrosse, it's not surprising that a kid would want to play for Salisbury or attend an ODAC, Centennial or NESCAC school.

Whether Salisbury or Limestone or Le Monye or Tufts could hang with the top of D1 (doubtful) but if they played the bottom half of D1, they would likely be favored in almost every game. That's the beauty of a small sport like lacrosse in that divisions are somewhat arbitrary given that the bottom half of D1 teams really aren't anything special.

I don't think anyone is saying a D3 team would beat a top 10 D1 team but then again, if you took a guy like Berkman and put him in a D1 school, wouldn't he likely be able to attract the top tier D1 talent and possibly continue winning at that level? He would likely not dominate D1 the way he has D3 but then again, he would more than hold his own and there is a reason that coaches at all levels admire what he has done and the knowledge that he brings to the game.
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Re: Salisbury to D-I?

New postby MrLax2U on Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:20 pm

You make an interesting point, D 3; and Happy New Year.

I don't think anyone is saying a D3 team would beat a top 10 D1 team but then again, if you took a guy like Berkman and put him in a D1 school, wouldn't he likely be able to attract the top tier D1 talent and possibly continue winning at that level? He would likely not dominate D1 the way he has D3 but then again, he would more than hold his own and there is a reason that coaches at all levels admire what he has done and the knowledge that he brings to the game.


How do you think the history of D 3 would have been rewritten if Bill Tierney had stayed at RIT after 1984 and made a career there? The time period roughly parallels Berkman at Salisbury. Would Tierney/RIT have 500 wins, a 90% win record and 12 NCs?

Zarching had maybe the best lax post ever;
The game is fickle. Give me ten goals, to use as I wish, and let me spread them over the last decade of games, and I could re-write DIII history, including Salisbury's.


Instead of 10 goals to Zarching what if we kept Bill Tierney at RIT or at Cortland?
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