2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

MLL, NLL, international lacrosse, and world championships

Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby UKLaxfan on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:19 am

thatsmell wrote:Team England gets their passports stamped:


you got that right!

it was Iroquois 10-0 England at end of 1st quarter

The Iroquois played their best lacrosse of the tourney so far in that quarter
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:21 pm

Have always been a much bigger fan of field lacrosse than box, but after watching some of this tournament I'm not so sure of that anymore. This international rules (if that's what you call it) box is a great game and the field game could take some of their rules and improve their game tremendously, IMO. There are those who say defenders have given up on playing close D. They say you can still strip the ball from the offensive player but they're not making the effort. Well, the way I see it, this box game proves how incredibly difficult it is to dislodge the ball (which is why the D is staying home) from the bags that are allowed on today's sticks. Time after time after time I've watched guys pinned up against the wall with defenders hacking the sh.. out of them, yet they still come out with the ball still in their stick. What I like is that they're allowed to hack the sh.. out of them, ride 'em, push 'em, cross check 'em....darn near anything goes and that's the way it should be in field too. If you want a stick that has that kind of bag (hold) in it, you should expect to get the sh.. hacked out of you when you have possession. The defense should be allowed to climb all over you as they are in this game. I'd bet that would speed up the pace of the game a ton as well as eliminating much of the over coaching. I suspect if you were to leave a Team Canada-Iroquois Nation box game and go watch a Hopkins-Syracuse field game, you'd find the field game very boring. There's a lot that could be taken from the box game and incorporated into the field game to improve the pace of play. D1 lax needs it, and the US needs to build a sh..load of box arenas....our boys need to start playing this game more.
Your boys take on those low life Aussies again tomorrow, UKLax, I wish you well, hope they beat 'em. I know I've already mentioned it, but their "scrimmage" last Thursday was a war. Both teams chose the brawn route over the brains route and that wasn't too bright. It cost both teams, but I think England hurt themselves more than the Aussies did (injuries...some of those boys were nicked up) which I think came to haunt them when they met the Czechs....it might have cost them that game. (and I think it did) I'd like to see your boys put a W on the board, they deserve it and it would be good for their heads....they've had a bit of a tough road.
Sorry about disturbing the thread.
Back to norm....

(I don't get it)
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:42 am

Wow, count me in as one who is thoroughly impressed with how far the Europeans have come with their lacrosse skills. As one who comes from a time when you wouldn't have used the words Finland, Germany, and lacrosse in the same sentence, I'm pretty blown away. The Finland-Germany game, which is being played right now, (it's half time) is a pretty evenly matched and competitive game as well as entertaining. The European Tournament (2019?) is going to be very interesting and entertaining. I don't think it's going to be all that long before the Europeans are going to be a threat to the US, they seem to be all about this game whereas with us, it's much more about the field game. This game definitely develops better skills and creativity, as well as quickness. Our game looks stale compared to this one. Why is it that face off is handled the way it should be in this game, (ball down, sticks down, whistle blows, go get 'em, no screwin' around) for example, but in our field game it's such a long and drawn out process?
Back to the game.
Carry on....
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:37 pm

Fins 11-9 over the Germans. Good game, hard fought. All these guys have got to be digging pretty deep at this point...pretty grueling tournament.
53 minutes and counting......
Eng-Aus.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:29 pm

Wow, these are some tired dogs, not enough fight left in them for any extra curricular activities, been a pretty clean game so far. (nothing like the scrimmage) Downundas go up 2 zip but Shaffer (sp?) scores two from out front (kind of far out) to tie it up. Aussies go back up 3-2 on a nicely assisted goal pretty much right in front of the cage...pretty play. Meanwhile, Rose is being Rose and making some mighty sweet saves....he's pretty amazing. (could be the difference in this game....these two are fairly evenly matched) England ties it then goes up by one before the half ends....also shoot themselves in the foot (a little extra curricular just before the end of the half) and will be playing 2 men down for another minute or so when the second half begins.
Back to the game.

10-7 end of the 3rd. English seem to have a little more energy at this point....gonna need to dig deep (both teams) for the last 15 min.
Uh oh....10-8.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:36 pm

:flags-wavegreatbritain: :flags-wavegreatbritain: :flags-wavegreatbritain:

w
Eng 13, Aussies 12
Incredible 4th quarter.
Your heart back to a normal pace yet, UKLax????
What a finish!!!!
(am pretty sure the Czechs won today too, which means your boys get another shot at them)
(NOT! Ireland beat 'em 14-13.....better get some beer, England v Ireland)
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby UKLaxfan on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:52 pm

didn't see the warm up game between Eng-Aus but the animosity in lacrosse isn't as big as cricket or rugby.

Lacrosse a small sport in both countries, a lot of Aussies have played in UK and a lot of Brits have played in Australia at club level.

the last couple of days have seen some very competitive games

Israel 13-12 Czech Republic

Finland 11-9 Germany
England 13-12 Australia
Czech Republic 13-14 Ireland

Sean Gibson (Ireland) scored winner with 3 seconds left in game

Tomorrow's schedule
09:00 Australia v Czech Republic - 7th place Onondaga Arena
09:30 Serbia v Germany - 11th place Village Pavilion
12:00 Ireland v England - 5th place Onondaga Arena
12:30 Finland v Turkey - 9th place Village Pavilion

Ireland should be an interesting game, they have 222 minutes in Penalties so far in 7 games.

one player has 62 minutes alone, you'd think he would be really tired with all those penalties but he has had over an hour sat in the box watching the game... he must like the view :think:
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:17 am

Not much going on here today, just the final games for the gold, silver and bronze.
For anyone who might not know, go to WILC2015 and click on "WATCH", both games
are going to be televised/streamed.
USA-Israel @ 1300 for the bronze.
Canada-Iroquois @ 1600 for gold and silver.

Nice finish for your English boys, UKLax, congrats.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dougm on Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:34 am

i have been watching the games streamed or on replay at the wilc youtube channel. yes, canada's defense is basically a collection of brodie merrills, which is pretty sick considering that brodie has been out due to injuries. the iroquois - they shoot lights out. but the minnows like israel, england, czechs, aussies, ireland have played beyond any expectations. the ball is rarely on the floor, they pass and shoot, no field tendencies, they have grown game by game. a shame that at best the usa is stuck in neutral. some of our shot selection has been poor, goaltending 'shivers"...its like we are content with bronze, that is our ceiling and our floor. they have to face a hungry israel today for bronze, and if the guys are not careful or prepared or motivated, they'll break through their floor.
if you want a real sport, play lacrosse.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby BigMacAttack on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:01 pm

Agree, it appears as if the rest of the world is catching up to us fast in this game. I've been surprised by the level of play they've risen to in a relatively short period of time. Maybe when discussing lacrosse in the Olympics (which I realize there is little to no interest in) this should be the game that is considered rather than the field game. :think:
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby UKLaxfan on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:12 pm

Venue ready for World Indoor Final

Image
Image
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:53 pm

:flags-canada:

Not the outcome I was hoping for, but certainly was the quality lacrosse I was hoping for. Wow, two incredibly good teams. What an exhibition! Canada is just big and strong and fast and deep, and talented, and oh, they've got a pretty good goalie too. Iroquois gave 'em all they could handle but in the end the Canadians just have too much.
Congrats Canada.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby UKLaxfan on Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:04 am

Well it's all over

Canada are World Indoor Champions 2015

Looked like the Haudenosaunee hosted an amazing event, I've heard from a lot of people that this was the best most enjoyable event they have ever attended

World Lacrosse Champions:

Men's Field - Canada 2014
Men's Indoor - Canada 2015
Women's U19s - Canada 2015

Can anyone see a pattern developing?

Next up
Men's U19s in Coquitlam, BC Canada 2016
Women's World Cup in Guildford, England 2017
Men's Senior World Field, Manchester, England 2018
Men's World Indoor, Langley BC, Canada 2019
Women's U19s Location TBA 2019

USA :think:

Go Canada :flags-canada:
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:06 pm

Have heard the same, all in all people seem real pleased with everything about the games. The added element of their being played on the Onondaga Nation is something that just can't be matched anywhere else...just adds a little extra magic. Was a real good call and the NAs stepped up big time, I've never seen the Rez looking as good as it does right now. Well done!

This international rules box game really blew me away, what a gorgeous game. As I've said, I've never really been around the box game much. Yes, I played it a couple of times as a teenager and have been to a few games here and there, but never really got caught up in it or watched it the way I did these games. (If anyone doesn't know, you can go to WILC2015 and click on WATCH and ARCHIVES will be one of the given options. You can go back and watch all the games there. Just putting that out there cuz there seems to be so much interest in this. :roll: ) The game has always looked somewhat like controlled chaos (which it kind of is) to me. After watching several of these games though, the game "slows down" a little for you, and you can better see and understand what's going on out there. It's much more than controlled chaos, there's incredible precision going on out there. What sweet ball movement, stick handling, passing and off ball movement there is in this game, and I absolutely love the way you can play defense in this game. With respect to a level playing field, this game reminds me of how the field game used to be before the "bags" took over and gave the offense such a huge advantage. You're not going to stand around holding the ball in the box game the way you can in the field game or you're going to get hammered. Both the ball and players are constantly moving in this game, unlike what the field game has turned into. It's kind of a shame in my book... sadly, it's actually pretty hard to justify "The fastest game played on two feet" anymore. Throw the over-coaching (which you don't get in box) in the game, and there's definitely room for improvement in the field game, IMO. The D1 field game definitely needs to be sped up.
Agree with you, UKLax, there is definitely a pattern there. The Canadians are flat out kickin' our a$$es and it's clearly evident why. We better start building some box facilities or nothing is going to change. There really is no comparison as to how much box sharpens your skills vs field. Gaits, Jaimeson, Keogh, Bucktooth, Thompsons, Staats, Marachek and plenty more....all box players....speaks volumes, along with all the titles the Canadians currently hold. Just sayin'.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby UKLaxfan on Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:48 pm

DMac, there is some discussion on the Denver 2016 thread about the impact of Canadians and the reasons why

There was a time when NCAA Coaches wanted the elite athletes and believed they could teach them how to play lacrosse

with the more organised/coached defensive schemes Coaches are taking away the ability for an individual player to dominate a game on their own.

Team and co-ordinated off ball play are becoming essential for a successful offense.

The Box Skills of spatial awareness, off ball play, catching & passing in traffic and finishing in small spaces now have a greater premium on them than in years past.

Purely from a process perspective it is surprising Canada haven't won even more World Championships at all levels.

start them young
put them in organised competitive structure from early age
surround the playing area (boards) so ball remains in play, creates more ball in stick time
have a small playing area, encourages contact & playing in traffic
have a shot clock which punishes conservative play
Have a National Coaching Structure supporting Coaching at all levels from Mite to NLL/WLA/MSL
have small goals and large heavily padded goalies
i) this promotes accurate finishing rather than just throwing the ball at the goal
ii) this protects goalies from injury and allows them to develop skills safely
iii) this promotes team play to work the ball inside to finish from close range as most shots from outside are very low percentage
Teams are community based so fans, juniors, players, coaches & administrators all on same page

Club travel teams care about your $$$s not you
Players & parents care about Golden Ticket of scholarships or assisted entry into elite College

Canadian Youth Development
Look at our team and how we play

American Youth Development
Look at me and how I play

Box Lacrosse at the WILC has so many elements that can benefit the whole game.

There are still aspects of the game which are very unattractive
Goons -
How one player can have 77 minutes in penalties without getting thrown out of the tournament prior to accumulating that number boggles my mind. Cross checking an opponent during a dead ball who isn't even looking at you, should have been instant expulsion from WILC. The same player ran an opponent into the boards head first after he had scored, they showed replay of attackers neck snapping back, fortunately there was no serious injury.
Goon behaviour should not be encouraged or enabled, there was almost a good ol' boy implicit acceptance of this BS machismo as being an enforcer and intimidating opposition. There is Zero skill in being a Goon

If Box is to grow in popularity and participation Goons need to be made extinct

good article of subject - http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/o ... osse/32959

Officials need to be referees and not the Larry, Moe & Curly from WWE

10p
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:53 pm

Outstanding post. (not surprisingly)
Very interesting, and I think dead nutz on, analysis of the Canadian and American youth development mentalities. (see all the videos on the My U Recruits threads)

Agree that this game needs to be kept clean and free of goons. Overly aggressive players (dirty) need to be dealt with severely. The rules allow you to be plenty rough, plenty physical, and plenty aggressive enough, there's no need for any more and it absolutely should not be tolerated/allowed.....will lead to nothing but ugliness.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby djp68 on Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:46 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:If Box is to grow in popularity and participation Goons need to be made extinct


I completely agree, and it's 100% on lacrosse fans. Every time Laxdotcom, TLN, or someone else publishes a box lacrosse fight on social media, it gets a ton of likes, shares, and a bunch of people posting "it's a necessary part of the game," blah blah blah. I love everything about box lacrosse except the goon mentality. You'd think with all the focus on concussions and injuries in other sports, box lacrosse would clamp down on goon hits.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby Saul10 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:22 pm

This is my first post, but I'm a long time reader and avid follower of this forum and just feel i now have to join. I do not intend to be negative but put things a bit into perspective. :-)


I enjoy the discussion about the effects of box lacrosse on general skill development. I agree that there was a lot of fantastic lacrosse displayed at the WILC and often beyond just the regular contenders. I'll re-watch many of these games to enjoy and learn. But coming from Europe myself i'm much less optimistic than other posters in this thread about the actual state of box lacrosse back home. There is a fundamental difference between the level played at home in many nations and the performance of the national teams. I'd like to show this with a few numbers and some quick research done by me. Now note that this is not intended to downplay success but to show that there is a substantial gap between the tournament and the reality of box lacrosse in most European nations.

There were 9 European nations and what I present is based on the FIl stats or some internet research.

0/9 teams had a homegrown head coach, all teams relied on Us/Canadian knowledge. Only 3 teams had some local assistant coaches.

If you look at the top 3 scorers of each team, only 10 out of 27 are homegrown. That is 37%, and they scored only 31% of all the points these players scored. On average a team would have to replace about 90 points with homegrown players if you switch the foreign top 3 players out. My bet is, they just can't.

Only 8 out of 18 Keepers that played meaningful time do not origin from North America. Out of the total 2200+ saves made by these players these 8 saved just 25%, which i take as a indicator that they were played significantly less. Obviously because they are not as good.

Only three teams came 100% homegrown or very close to it and they all placed in the bottom half.

So for me homegrown means that a player learned the sport in the actual country he played for. Now while that for sure can be debated, what I'm trying to show is that most European countries choose to take on players that were groomed in North America instead of their own guys and therefore that performance has little to do with local development. Now in case of double-passport holders and qualified non passport holders this is perfectly within the rules and something I accept and while it's up to each nation to know for what and how they strive for, these facts show me that European box lacrosse has a very long way to go.

Now what needs to be done to change that in the long run?

Recognize that Box is as important as Field and not just a fun thing to do when the weather is bad in the wintertime. As long as its just seen as a complimentary version that just prepares for field instead of an equal version growth will be small.
Get rid of the gym-style lacrosse with funky rules and 2x10 minutes formats etc and replace it with real box lacrosse with FIl rules. I'd say that only ~3 European countries are that far right now. The bottleneck is probably the availability of suitable arenas. Be creative. Play box in summer when hockey is paused or find roller / inline hockey arenas that are open year round. Also go and get the equipment: Encourage to players to buy rip protectors and all the other stuff needed because that is useful in field as well anyways and without it you can't play real box. Then start to educate the coaches and referees for the specifics of the indoor game.

There are other advantages of the box game that can be great for developing nations like there are less players needed. With 1 Keeper and 10 players in box you got one sub for every runner where as in field you will struggle after 20 mins. This will make it much easier to smaller clubs to join games.

There is just so much potential. I really hope the WILC 2015 inspires to get it done.


Btw: Is anyone willing to share box playbooks / strategies? Or knows available material to watch or read? :P
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dmaclaxnut11 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 pm

Nice entrance, Saul, welcome aboard.
Can't say that I find any of that surprising. It takes generations to grow a lacrosse culture. The seeds have been planted in Europe and you can see some growing, but it will be many (and that could be a whole lot) years before anyone says Lithuania is a real lacrosse hotbed.
In 1962 you couldn't have put this kind of tournament together. Well, you could have but there wouldn't have been much travelling involved and the funny thing is, there's a good chance the outcome would have been the same. So in that respect, it's pretty amazing that there are 13 countries participating in the world games. I do get it that lacrosse is on the bottom wrung of the sports ladder in Europe, but just the fact that there's enough interest to field a team, whether it be home grown or inclusive of a couple of illegal aliens, (we're all about that here) says something about the growth of the game. I don't doubt the quality of the games played in Europe are a far cry from what we saw here, the level of competition and environment brought out the best of everyone. Nevertheless, those who played here will take that level of play back home and try to pass it along to others. It's a long process, but it's happening.
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Re: 2015 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship

New postby dougm on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:53 am

actually gooning it up as you say has been on the decrease for quite awhile in nll/msl/wla. still a throwdown now and then but not as much then a sitdown for 5 mins won't cure. the bigger issue i have with nll is that concussions are increasing because the players get 2 minutes for a whiff of an open floor hit. the concussions are occurring with guys not protecting themselves along the boards or just pure stupidity. brodie merrill wrote an interesting article about headhunting and hard hitting.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/wing ... ports.html

any player head shots another player is going to get some attention, players know the difference of a cheap hit and a clean one. most nll fans say the occasional scrap is fine but the headhunting needs more than 5-minutes. there are rules that severely punish high checks but if anything they are called too loosely, to the point where players have no need to worry about the high or clean, it called the same way. if the refs could actually distinguish the two, real shoulder to shoulder open floor hitting would return and headshots go away. those who want tough lax and those that wanted limited fighting would be served.
if you want a real sport, play lacrosse.
all the others are just games.
go wings!
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