MIAA A Conference 2018

For discussions of high school varsity boys' lacrosse

Which 6 make the playoffs?

Poll ended at Sat May 05, 2018 1:45 pm

Calvert Hall
71
18%
McDonogh
64
16%
Boys' Latin
59
15%
St Paul's
38
10%
Severn
20
5%
St Mary's Annapolis
39
10%
Loyola-Blakefield
39
10%
Gilman
31
8%
Spalding
5
1%
Mount St Joseph / John Carroll
11
2%
 
Total votes : 377

Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby thatsmell on Tue May 15, 2018 12:16 pm

It's easy to claim NY has more, better players when it has 400 teams h/s playing lax in NY State, a region that has a 4X larger footprint than MD and has a city that is home to 18M people there. But we have minimal results that actually bear that out.

Tip of the hat to Chaminad and Garden City for leaving the friendly confines of NYS, but when does West Genny, Ward Melville or Massapequa leave the Empire State? OR any of the other top NY teams?

:think:

IMO, the MIAA is the best, deepest 11 team conference in the nation. You an dispariage MIAA teams all you want, but it doesn't hold weight until you can show me another conference that is as consistently good from top to bottom. MIAA teams take on any and all comers and win the bulk of those games. The reality is NY doesnt have as deep conferences and most NY teams don't dare leave the state or just occasionally head up to CT. NY may be better, but no one will ever know. It's a closed shop and it's hurting their reputation.

Feel free to call it BS, but the MIAA OOC games are treated more like scrimmages. I'm not saying the kids or coaches dont care. They are giving the best, hardest coaching and playing from the kids duiring the games. But it's more scimmage-like in that the teams are usually more worried about themselves and what they are doing as a team, not the opponents. That means working on sets, trying new things and occasionally working on combinations. I dont know of any scouting reports, pregame practices or advanced scouting for OOC games like there are for regular conference games.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby random observer on Tue May 15, 2018 12:41 pm

thatsmell you're making a straw man argument. The MIAA is universally regarded as the best, deepest conference in the country. I'm not sure you'll find anybody who would argue with that fact. The rest of your post is disagree with greatly.

1. Some of the teams you deride probably could do a little bit better in their scheduling, but you have to consider that the upstate teams are hampered by their geographic location (and don't have massive funds to overcome this at that), and that the Suffolk schools are hampered by having only 2 OOC spots. With so few spots to use, it's hard to guarantee a top matchup; if the team you schedule ends up having a down year, you don't have 5 other games to even it out.

2. As it stands WM went up to massachusetts to play Lincoln-Sudbury, who appears to be a bit down this year but has been the dominant public program in that state the past several years and beat them last year. Massapequa had a great OOC schedule taking on top programs from the Catholics, Nassau, Suffolk (just as teams like McDonogh take on top local programs from the WCAC and IAC), and played a top 5 team in CT.

3. How is heading up to CT all that different from MIAA teams playing schools in Philly? Similar distances traveled, and I'd say the level of competition is not too different.

4. The MIAA really doesn't win the bulk of their big games. They win all of their games against non-hotbed teams, but they're decidedly split when it comes to facing other top teams. Who did McDonogh beat this year OOC? Who did Loyola beat? Calvert Hall faired pretty well, and Boys' Latin went 2-1 with an OT win over Conestoga splitting the difference. Last year's undefeated champ lost their only two OOC games of note, to non-top 25 editions of Malvern and Conestoga.

5. The "OOC games are like scrimmages" excuse is GARBAGE. Pure garbage. Yes, if you had to choose which game to win, you take the conference win every time. And if you lose your OOC game it's not the end of the world. But these are competitors who want to be the best of the best. You're not going to convince me that for even one second, those teams are not doing their all to win every game on their schedule. Sure, they might not have in-depth scouting of their opponents, and they're less familiar with them -- that's true of every team playing an OOC game. But you paint the scene like the MIAA teams are ignoring in-game adjustments and running an extended practice. If a middie flies by a shortie on a dodge, you'd best believe an MIAA coaching staff is going to pole him the next possession.

6. For argument's sake, whilst I don't think they're as deep as the MIAA, both Suffolk A and NEW-1 typically have 7-8 teams that are strong squads (by that I mean the worst of them can play with the best of them if they don't bring their A game).

TLDR: MIAA is the best, deepest conference hands down. That doesn't mean their best teams are always better than the best teams from elsewhere. Recently I'd say the top of the conference has been a little down. The only MIAA team in the past 4 years that to me seemed like a top 5 team nationally was 2016 McDonogh.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby McLovin lax on Tue May 15, 2018 12:53 pm

I am totally agreeing with you Random Observer on that point. The MIAA does not always have a top 5 team in the country. This is a fact. Being a top 5 team in the country is well extremely difficult. The point is any year the MIAA teams can play with anybody and have the ability to beat anybody.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby Augustus Fink-Nottle on Tue May 15, 2018 1:03 pm

"Friendly confines"? Really? This is not the road you want to start down. Manhasset, Yorktown, and Cold Spring Harbor, in addition to the teams you named have visited MIAA teams. MIAA visits to Long Island over history can be counted on one finger. Strongest/deepest conference? MIAA. Does anyone else care about their conference? League identity/supremacy appears to matter massively to MIAA supporters and not at all to most others. I can tell you most LI players would be hard put to tell you what league/conference they're in.What they do know is what classification they're in and that they will be competing in it, at the end of the year, against more than a handful of teams, for a State Championship of the strongest/deepest lacrosse State in the country.
Last edited by Augustus Fink-Nottle on Tue May 15, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby BeaverCreek on Tue May 15, 2018 1:21 pm

random observer wrote:thatsmell you're making a straw man argument. The MIAA is universally regarded as the best, deepest conference in the country. I'm not sure you'll find anybody who would argue with that fact. The rest of your post is disagree with greatly.

1. Some of the teams you deride probably could do a little bit better in their scheduling, but you have to consider that the upstate teams are hampered by their geographic location (and don't have massive funds to overcome this at that), and that the Suffolk schools are hampered by having only 2 OOC spots. With so few spots to use, it's hard to guarantee a top matchup; if the team you schedule ends up having a down year, you don't have 5 other games to even it out.

2. As it stands WM went up to massachusetts to play Lincoln-Sudbury, who appears to be a bit down this year but has been the dominant public program in that state the past several years and beat them last year. Massapequa had a great OOC schedule taking on top programs from the Catholics, Nassau, Suffolk (just as teams like McDonogh take on top local programs from the WCAC and IAC), and played a top 5 team in CT.

3. How is heading up to CT all that different from MIAA teams playing schools in Philly? Similar distances traveled, and I'd say the level of competition is not too different.

4. The MIAA really doesn't win the bulk of their big games. They win all of their games against non-hotbed teams, but they're decidedly split when it comes to facing other top teams. Who did McDonogh beat this year OOC? Who did Loyola beat? Calvert Hall faired pretty well, and Boys' Latin went 2-1 with an OT win over Conestoga splitting the difference. Last year's undefeated champ lost their only two OOC games of note, to non-top 25 editions of Malvern and Conestoga.

5. The "OOC games are like scrimmages" excuse is GARBAGE. Pure garbage. Yes, if you had to choose which game to win, you take the conference win every time. And if you lose your OOC game it's not the end of the world. But these are competitors who want to be the best of the best. You're not going to convince me that for even one second, those teams are not doing their all to win every game on their schedule. Sure, they might not have in-depth scouting of their opponents, and they're less familiar with them -- that's true of every team playing an OOC game. But you paint the scene like the MIAA teams are ignoring in-game adjustments and running an extended practice. If a middie flies by a shortie on a dodge, you'd best believe an MIAA coaching staff is going to pole him the next possession.

6. For argument's sake, whilst I don't think they're as deep as the MIAA, both Suffolk A and NEW-1 typically have 7-8 teams that are strong squads (by that I mean the worst of them can play with the best of them if they don't bring their A game).

TLDR: MIAA is the best, deepest conference hands down. That doesn't mean their best teams are always better than the best teams from elsewhere. Recently I'd say the top of the conference has been a little down. The only MIAA team in the past 4 years that to me seemed like a top 5 team nationally was 2016 McDonogh.



Anyone who reads these boards knows that Random Observer is one of the sharpest hs lax guys around, not to mention a very good writer. I agree with everything he says above (I normally agree with everything he writes, so no big surprise).

I'd add one thing: if thatsmell is correct (and maybe he is), that the MIAA coaches treat OOC like scrimmages, then that explains a lot about why they lose certain OOC games that they really should win. Take it as a compliment: I have seen multiple MIAA OOC contests where the skill levels and even athleticism tilted the MIAA way, and yet the MIAA team found a way to lose.

Prime example of a game that clearly the MIAA team was not prepared for: this year's Loyola Hill match. I've said in the past I don't envy the first squad that gets Hill's first game, and Loyola took that role this year, but for Loyola to get absolutely smoked by Hill and then watch SSSA beat the same Hill team the next day...I mean, if you're an honest broker, don't you wonder about that? Trust me: Hill is not an 8-goal better team than Loyola this year.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby USNA on Tue May 15, 2018 1:35 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby SemiEliteStatus on Tue May 15, 2018 3:04 pm

If you've been in this area for a long time, you understand that there is a parochial legacy still infusing the MIAA. In the future this should change, and I predict that the OOC schedule will mean more to the MIAA schools. Maybe this occurs when USA Today starts publishing a top 25 HS lacrosse ranking regularly, like they do for baseball, football and basketball.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby deefense on Tue May 15, 2018 3:05 pm

Upset special: Lakers over the Eagles by 2. Look for BL to run a lot of zone, win 60-70% of FOs and slow the pace of the game down dramatically. They will selectively attack some of the close D and rope unit based on match ups and use the two man game to get the opportunities they want. Look for a disciplined offense from the Lake as they turned the ball over a ton last time.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby SemiEliteStatus on Tue May 15, 2018 3:08 pm

Predictions for tonight:

CHC 12 LB 8 Loyola puts up a valiant fight as the Ruberor era comes to an end, but CHC just relentlessly applies more pressure, creating better and more frequent scoring opportunities.

McD 11 BL 9 A very close game - McD scores a few late goals and moves on.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby HurryT on Tue May 15, 2018 3:17 pm

OCC / Nations Top 25 Teams - does anybody really care? The season is drawing to a close - can we please talk about tonight's MIAA games. Thank you :confusion-shrug:
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby Augustus Fink-Nottle on Tue May 15, 2018 3:23 pm

"Can't do it, Sally"- Tom Hagen
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby McLovin lax on Tue May 15, 2018 8:20 pm

BL takes down McDonogh 8-5. Saw this coming. Loyola and CHC moved to tomorrow @ 4 at Towson because of weather. I think the Dons prevail.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby biglaxinworm4life on Tue May 15, 2018 8:37 pm

I got to see the McD and BL game. Highly disappointed with the Eagles. Simply put out coached... BL has an answer for everything and McD often times seemed confused when the first look wasn’t there on offense.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby The Left Hand on Tue May 15, 2018 8:45 pm

deefense wrote:Upset special: Lakers over the Eagles by 2. Look for BL to run a lot of zone, win 60-70% of FOs and slow the pace of the game down dramatically. They will selectively attack some of the close D and rope unit based on match ups and use the two man game to get the opportunities they want. Look for a disciplined offense from the Lake as they turned the ball over a ton last time.


Rock solid prognostication right here. Good work.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby Tennessee Jed on Tue May 15, 2018 9:23 pm

Booker wrote:Games will be at Towson Univ. Tuesday evening at 5:00 and 7:30

also available on miaalacrosse.com

Please enjoy the games and support the heck outta these young men.
Every one of them is trying their best, and for 2 teams tmrw night it won't be good enough. and another on Friday night is gonna come up short. Yes, the winners deserve to be celebrated - and will be - for years.

Let's do what we can to give the credit to the Man in the Arena ... whose face is marred with sweat dust and blood -- who dares valiantly -- for his place shall NEVER be with those cold timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

best I could recall from the Teddy Roosevelt quote.
My dad used to hate the cold timid souls ..... Life is a team sport. Let's help each other out -- It's only a high school lacrosse game ......... what these kids become at age 25-30-35 is what kinda really matters. We all want them to become the best possible version of themselves.


Why am I not able to watch a replay of the BL vs McD game? I paid my $45 but it is the only game not available.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby Matnum PI on Wed May 16, 2018 8:15 am

The Left Hand wrote:
deefense wrote:Upset special: Lakers over the Eagles by 2....
Rock solid prognostication right here. Good work.


Left, I thought the same thing. Had to check the date and time of the post it was so spot on. deefense, impressive.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby BeaverCreek on Wed May 16, 2018 8:51 am

deefense wrote:Upset special: Lakers over the Eagles by 2. Look for BL to run a lot of zone, win 60-70% of FOs and slow the pace of the game down dramatically. They will selectively attack some of the close D and rope unit based on match ups and use the two man game to get the opportunities they want. Look for a disciplined offense from the Lake as they turned the ball over a ton last time.



Wow. Great call.

Tough year for the Eagles with the girls also losing their first in forever.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby MDlaxfan06 on Wed May 16, 2018 11:33 am

Great face-off and goalie play can take you deep on a playoff run at any level, and that's what we saw yesterday with BL.

Controlled time of possession. Patient, methodical offense. Packed it in on D and dared McD to beat Chris Brandau in the goal from outside of 10 yards which they couldn't do.

Credit a nice gameplan to the BL staff, and a bit of a head-scratcher for McD as they seemed lost in settled 6v6 offense for most of the game.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby deefense on Wed May 16, 2018 1:31 pm

BeaverCreek wrote:
deefense wrote:Upset special: Lakers over the Eagles by 2. Look for BL to run a lot of zone, win 60-70% of FOs and slow the pace of the game down dramatically. They will selectively attack some of the close D and rope unit based on match ups and use the two man game to get the opportunities they want. Look for a disciplined offense from the Lake as they turned the ball over a ton last time.



Wow. Great call.

Tough year for the Eagles with the girls also losing their first in forever.


Tough year indeed. Coaching losses in both programs didn't help. Interesting approach to the faceoff dilemma. Took a lot of losses before they deployed two poles or different wing players and never tried another option at the X. Offense vs the zone was even more puzzling. Faced the same exact zone defense two years ago in the finals. No seals, poor ball movement, popcorn shots and a befuddling failure to sneak the X on the pipe. No adjustments equals same outcome.
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Re: MIAA A Conference 2018

New postby BeaverCreek on Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 pm

Interesting, deefense.

I feel that the faceoff situation in the MIAA in general is a systemic weakness. If you have a Hunter Moreland or Woodall, you don't necessarily need to think the FO play through, but for the vast majority of teams who don't have a lockdown FOGO, why no adjustments when it's obvious that you're going to lose most FO's? Positioning of wings, selection of poles, adjusting FOGO's to mix up the pace, and wing movement around a scrum are really critical, but you see some really inexplicable non-decisions.

I didn't get a chance to watch the first game (I was going to watch the 2nd one), but what you write about McD is somewhat reflective of what I'm writing above, which is even stranger since Hilgartner is an excellent coach. Maybe the coaches are telling the kids what to do but the kids aren't doing as told? I mean, when a whistle blows, sometimes kids just go for it... But, if you have the right speed with the right amount of athleticism in the right wing position with the right stick, you can get those few extra FO's that could be the difference between a W and an L.
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